Montage guitar sounds

[Larry Novik]

For me, after having the basic bread and butter sounds, guitar sounds are the most important to me. I have a Yamaha Motif ES which does have great electric guitar sounds. I had played the Montage in a music store, and I thought it had guitar sounds which were similar but even better--understandable since its a much newer instrument. While I'm not yet ready to spend thousands on a new Montage, does anyone else out there know where else out there I could find the same guitar patches as are on the Montage? Perhaps they've incorporated them onto a less expensive Yamaha synth, or maybe one can purchase samples of these without buying the whole synth. I know some synths come out with a module (without the keyboard), but I haven't heard of that. Any ideas?
Thanks.
LNovik

 

[TooTone]

The reason they sound great is because of the Montage/MODX "XA" feature, which means Expanded Articulation. Briefly, what you are hearing are seemingly authentic, but in fact, cleverly programmed "control" Arps, that play fret noise, refretting slides and other "guitar" noises (all multi-bank samples), depending on Velocity, Potamento/Legato and other factors i.e. depending on how you play.

Same applies for quite a few other instruments.

If you are a Montage/MODX OS "Super User" you can program your own triggers for XA, but Yamaha provide a host of "Mega" Performances, carefully programmed for you, and Yamaha do recommend you use these.

Cheap?

The MODX is cheap. But it has all the same "Engines" as a Montage, if you can live without the luxurious appointments the Montage has (Extra Knobs, Buttons, Faders, Better Keyboard etc).

Same applies

 

[Larry Novik]

Thanks for that comprehensive answer. I have been searching for the past hour or more, and have not been able to find comparisons. If I may ask you 1 more follow-up question. I have heard that the Montage has some type of overall audio engine that might make everything it plays sound better. So, what do you think about the following: if I were playing the Yamaha electric guitar sounds from another non-Yamaha keyboard (thru MIDI), and playing notes one at a time (like a lead guitar and not chords), do you think you'd be able to tell when I was playing Montage guitar sounds vs MOXF6 guitar sounds?
Thanks very much for taking the time to answer my last question, and hopefully this one.
LNovik

 

[TooTone]

You can use an external MIDI Controller Keyboard to play the Montage's sound Engine, so the XA would work.

You can't play the MOXF Samples through the Montage and have the Montage add XA, if that is what you are asking.

In your case, if you had both Montage and MOXF, and specifically needed XA, you would need to use your MOXF to MIDI Control the Montage. Or, just use the Montage. You can feed the MOXF Audio (not MIDI) through the Montage and benefit from its additional Effects.

The Montage (I believe) has all the same samples, and possibly Performances from the Motif XF/MOXF, plus more... including XA "instrument noise" samples for instance.

You asked:- "Perhaps they've incorporated them onto a less expensive Yamaha synth?"

Yes they have... the MODX Series Synths. They are around 35-40% the cost of an equivalent (61, 76, 88 key) Montage. Less if you can find an honest retailer... Some Retailers have added their own premium due to high demand vs global-covid-shortage.

 

[Larry Novik]

Thanks for that info. I hadn't thought of the newer MODX series synths. I should say that I did not understand what you were saying in the first sentence and 3rd paragraph when you talked about "XA." You basically said, "so the XA would work." I don't even know what an XA is, and I couldn't find anything in a search either.
I guess the MODX series would sound a little more identical to the Montage, esp regarding guitar sounds. It seemed like when I looked at the patch list for the Montage, it listed a lot more guitar sounds than the MOXF6. In fact, the Montage listed a whole bunch of guitar sounds, and then a few pages later, another long list of more guitar sounds.
Thanks for your time.
LNovik

 

[TooTone]

XA means Expanded Articulation. It has quite a few different applications, but in the case of Guitar, it will automatically Layer "authentic" Guitar Specific Samples over the top of the basic guitar "note samples".

The XA samples may include such things as String Slides (if played legato), Harmonics (if you press/hold a switch), Fretting Noise (Key Off), Handling Noise (Random generated String Scratches, accidental open notes), Mutes, Pick Rakes etc

Whether or not the XA samples trigger depends on how you play the keyboard. The two most obvious are Velocity variations and playing Legato.

It all adds to the "realism".

The other aspect of sounding "real" is your choice of notes. A Guitar is fairly limited as to which Chord voicings and intervals can be played successfully without straining your fingers.

For example, you will find Minor 2nd and Major 2nd intervals are a rarity, unless open strings or open tunings are used. Instead, these would normally be played as b9 (13 semitones) and add9 (14 semitones) respectively.

Another Guitar centric limitation some keyboardists forget is that a guitar can only play a maximum of 6 notes simultaneously (6 Strings). So even with great sounding samples, if you are regularly playing 10 note chords with narrow intervals you will lose that authenticity because your chord choices are not natural for guitar.

 

[TooTone]

I guess the MODX series would sound a little more identical to the Montage, esp regarding guitar sounds.

The MODX sounds are identical.

The differences are in hardware. The Montage Flagship is more luxuriously appointed, but also costs more than double a MODX.

 

[Biggles]

But all keyboards still sound like keyboards with guitar sounds and not sounding like a guitar.

We have only seen one video posted here of a guy playing guitar sounds on a keyboard and it sounding like a guitar.

He even said it took him a lot of practice to get to the level he was at.

 

[TooTone]

But all keyboards still sound like keyboards with guitar sounds and not sounding like a guitar.

We have only seen one video posted here of a guy playing guitar sounds on a keyboard and it sounding like a guitar.

He even said it took him a lot of practice to get to the level he was at.

The second video demonstrates how "expressive inflections" are important to sounding authentic on a keyboard (they are important to playing Guitar also). The "Seaboard" can do this, but a standard (piano type) keyboard can't.

IMO, the "Nylon String Acoustic" guitars on Montage are very good. Some of the "Steel String Acoustic" sounds are also passable. They still have a way to go though in the Electric Guitar category, these samples sound very synthetic. I am hoping that Yamaha will upgrade their electric guitar samples in some future OS update.

 

[Larry Novik]

I must say I listened to a Youtube video blindly comparing the Montage to the MODX. While I did not hear a difference in all the sounds, I DID hear differences in the piano and strings. They both sounded fuller on the MOntage. A few other people commented similarly. The differences were admittedly subtle to my ear. For instance, higher piano notes on the MODX sounded a bit "tinny" to me, as compared to the Montage. They say that it might be because the one significant difference in sound quality between these 2 synths has something to do with there being a "pure analog circuit' in the Montage.
Thanks for all that info, TooTone.
And Biggles, I don't think that all keyboard guitar patches sound like keyboards. OF course, it depends who is listening. I think most people who hear my nonprofessional videos think the guitar sound is a real guitar. Of course, that's when part of a mix. I'm not saying you would be similarly fooled...
LNovik