Upgrade from Juno DS 88

[Briggy]

Hi all

So I absolutely love my Roland Juno DS 88. I have found more features than I ever thought it would have, some I now rely on quite heavily. For example:

1. The ability to run a 2nd keyboard via MIDI cable and programme separate sounds for it. It’s essentially like having 2 Juno’s which is great!

2. The ability to assign/unassign the expression pedal to certain patched in a performance

3. The shear flexibility in patch and performance editing including effects

4. It sounds really trivial, but I like that the mod wheel goes left to right rather than up and down (just like my VR-09), I find it much easier to be expressive.

Among many other great things about it for such a good price (I got it for about £500 second hand about 3-4 years ago).

However, there are restrictions and some extra features I would like in addition to what the Juno has.

1. I play in several bands, all of which like to change sets last moment. Changing the order of favourites is a right pain, especially when I have 4 bands worth of performances saved. I keep back ups on USBs and tempted to have one USB for each band but still not solving the changing performance order. Without going to software, I’d like a work station I can plug into a laptop and easily organise my performances (like drag and drop easy).

2. I can only assign one function globally to the expression pedal on the Juno. A right pain if I want gain for one performance, cut off for another etc basically undoable. I’d like a workstation that allows me to set different expression pedal functions for each performance.

3. I really like the sounds, I now I have used the VR09 I see the difference I piano sound quality. I’d like a workstation that does piano well along with the flexibility the DS had

Software achieves all of those but very expensive, I’m not convinced on reliability and I just prefer the idea of a workstation. Without going silly on the budget, are there any recommendations that meet all my criteria?

 

[happyrat1]

I'd say rake a look at the Fantom 08 that Roland recently released.

 

[Biggles]

I'd say rake a look at the Fantom 08 that Roland recently released.

UK stores have these at £1354

One hellova great keyboard for the price

The 61 key version was £1600 when it was released

 

[anotherscott]

The Fantom-0 is a great board, but to address the particular points you asked about...

1. I play in several bands, all of which like to change sets last moment. Changing the order of favourites is a right pain, especially when I have 4 bands worth of performances saved. I keep back ups on USBs and tempted to have one USB for each band but still not solving the changing performance order. Without going to software, I’d like a work station I can plug into a laptop and easily organise my performances (like drag and drop easy).

The Fantom-0 does not have a computer-based editor/librarian available. That said, its Scene and Scene Chain on-board editing functions make re-arranging sounds much easier on the Fantom-0 than on the DS.

2. I can only assign one function globally to the expression pedal on the Juno. A right pain if I want gain for one performance, cut off for another etc basically undoable. I’d like a workstation that allows me to set different expression pedal functions for each performance.

The Fantom-0 will give you this.

3. I really like the sounds, I now I have used the VR09 I see the difference I piano sound quality. I’d like a workstation that does piano well along with the flexibility the DS had

This is subjective. I don't happen to be a fan of the Fantom-0 piano, but you'd have to make that call for yourself.

I'll also mention one possible trade-off. You said that one of the things you like best about the DS is "The shear flexibility in patch and performance editing including effects" -- the Fantom-0 is enormously flexible, but the DS actually beats it in one aspect of the effects. The Fantom-0 permits one part-specific effect on a given sound (sometimes called insert effect), while the Juno DS allows you to put up to three such effects on a sound. OTOH, the Juno DS maxes out at those 3 insert effects, That is, if you stacked all three on one sound, you'd have none left to put on another sound (a sound that might be split or layered, or triggered from your other keyboard). So while the Fantom-0 only lets you put one such effect on a sound at a time rather than three, it provides 16 such effects, allowing you to put effects on up to 16 sounds at a time. On the Juno DS, if you similarly limited your insert effects to only one per sound, you would still be limited to having effects on only up to three sounds simultaneously, rather than 16. So which effects system is "more flexible" depends on what it is you're trying to do.

 

[anotherscott]

So I absolutely love my Roland Juno DS 88...
However, there are restrictions and some extra features I would like in addition to what the Juno has.

1. I play in several bands, all of which like to change sets last moment. Changing the order of favourites is a right pain, especially when I have 4 bands worth of performances saved. I keep back ups on USBs and tempted to have one USB for each band but still not solving the changing performance order. Without going to software, I’d like a work station I can plug into a laptop and easily organise my performances (like drag and drop easy).

re: " I’d like a work station I can plug into a laptop and easily organise my performances (like drag and drop easy)" -- Also, have you checked Roland's Juno DS Tone Manager app (or their earlier Librarian)? You can plug in your laptop and re-organize your performances...

 

[Briggy]

Thanks so much for all the replies. I didn’t see them sooner as I though I got emails when people did it apparently not - will have to sort that.

The Fanton certainly sounds worth investigating. I did have a very quick look at the Tone Manager app but never had any luck with it. It would be better if I could re-order easier on the workstation it self (so many times a band change the set list 2 hours before a gig )

 

[anotherscott]

It would be better if I could re-order easier on the workstation it self (so many times a band change the set list 2 hours before a gig

Yes, the Fantom-0's Scene CHain function handles that nicely.

 

[anotherscott]

Another approach is to use an app on a smartphone of tablet to send patch changes to your Juno DS. You can create re-orderable on-screen buttons/lists of songs/sounds, and then tap the screen to call up the desired sound.

 

[Briggy]

Another approach is to use an app on a smartphone of tablet to send patch changes to your Juno DS. You can create re-orderable on-screen buttons/lists of songs/sounds, and then tap the screen to call up the desired sound.

That sounds like a great solution. Could I be cheeky and ask for more information? I would y even k ow where to start. Is there a specific app, is this through midi programming?

 

[anotherscott]

That sounds like a great solution. Could I be cheeky and ask for more information? I would y even k ow where to start. Is there a specific app, is this through midi programming?

Some iPad apps that allow you to send MIDI patch changes by tapping a screen entry include...

... set list management apps, like Set List Maker, OnSong, ForScore

... MIDI routing apps, like Camelot Pro, Keystage, iMidiPatchbay

... MIDI control surface apps (for lack of a better descriptor), like MIDI Designer Pro, MIDIpad 2, TouchOSC

(that's not an exhaustive list, just some I knew of)

I haven't used these all personally, and they may vary a lot in how suitable they are for your purposes, but it gives you a starting point of some things to look at. Some of them also work on iPhone and Android devices. One thing to be aware of is that, since the Juno DS has more than 128 patches, anything designed to change its patches needs to be able to send, not just a Program Change command but also CC0/CC32 (or MSB/LSB) bank select commands. Most do, but I'm not sure they all do.