Best Bang for the Buck Between $2,000 - $3,000

[BistroBaron]

Hi Everyone,

I need your help in buying a digital piano/keyboard. [No, I don’t need your money, just your advice.]

I haven’t kept up with the technology, so I need assistance in deciding on the piano/keyboard that best fits my requirements below. Heck, even “digital” piano is a new term to me – last time I looked it was “electric” piano. And MIDI, I though, was the character on that old Robin Williams show, “Mork and MIDI.” LOL So I need some help…

Where I was skill-wise:

I played for years on the road 35 years ago – had a B-3 (nothin’ like it), Rhodes (best piano goin’ in the 70s), ARP Omni (first decent strings), Fender keyboard bass, Minimoog D and ARP Odyssey. As a child I passed the local college’s piano major entrance exam at age 12, and as an adult once sat-in with Lou Rawls, a thrill of a lifetime. Was “discovered” by Cher’s manager, but that didn’t go anywhere…

Where I am now:

All that’s long gone...and the problem now is I haven’t touched a keyboard over 10 years. (Shame on me, I know.) Because I’m more than halfway to old and now forget where to place my fingers for chording/coloring and keeping a busy left hand ( as well as where I left my car keys), I need your help in selecting something that will bring me into the 21st century. (It get’s tiring, you know, refilling those whale oil lamps on the music stand. Okay, I’m not THAT old.)

General comments on what I want:

1. Weighted-hammer/graded-action – I want it to feel like a piano first and organ/synth second.
2. 73, 76 or 88 keys (no 61s) – my Rhodes was a 73, and 73 or 76 keys are fine to cut-down on cost.
3. Trying to stay under $3,000; ideal would be closer to $2,000.
4. Which make/model in that range has the best acoustic piano sound?
5. Which In that range has the best B-3 “percussive attack” and sound ?
6. I don’t need as many synth sounds anymore as I do “pop/standards/strings/ballads” sounds – what I want is more for accompaniment, not solo (unless doodling on top of something else).
7. Portability: I’m trying to stay away from the 100-200 pounders unless I get a heck of a deal on, for example, a used Yamaha Clavinova. (I know the CP-3000 would be a lot easier to move around, and might have more features.) Portability and weight are less important than features, so if it’s heavy but sounds great, the sound is more important.
8. I’m not stuck on styling – traditional piano set-up or piano on legs versus a keyboard and stand – I’d done both in the past – so the features and bang for the buck are more important. This will be a “stand-alone, just me” instrument, and I won’t be taking it from gig to gig or hooking-up other gear to it, so “can sequence 50 MIDI machines with it” is not a fact in my decision.

Wish list:

1. Needs to sound as close as possible to the concert grand I wish I had. (Heck, I’ll settle for a spinet sound as long as it sounds authentically acoustic.)
2. Ability to “record, then accompany myself” –record rhythm section, strings, etc. – to “fill-out” the song and then play over that.
a. Which model in my range let’s me overlay the most voices?
b. How many “finished pieces” can I save before I run out of memory? (Which models can store the most tunes/tracks?)
3. “Computer-ability” – USB/flash would be best, right? (Direct-to-Internet like the more expensive Yamahas isn’t really necessary if I can use a thumb drive, correct?) I want to be able to use tracks/backgrounds I download of the Net or make/store myself . (Also need connect-ability some way for sounds and OS upgrades on the more expensive models.
4. Transposition/modulation – being able to “dial it up or down ” to get a song into your voice range.
5. Split keyboard feature, e.g., organ in the lower register, piano on the top.
6. Metronome, so I can time everything when recording multiple voices/tracks.
7. At least two pedal jacks (sustain and soft). Another for the “Leslie sound” would be nice.

Manufacturers:

Should I go with what some say are the better piano tones in the Yamahas and give-up some of the “toys and options” in other makes? Or do I go with a keyboard like a Nord – any compromise on the acoustic piano sound compared to the Yamahas? And if a Nord Stage, should I get the EX because of the doubled memory? Is Roland a good brand these days? Does warranty really matter, i.e., are they all well-built, or should I look for a company with a two- or three-year warranty? Which is easiest to repair? Which company has the best service? Is this an unbelievably long list of questions?

Closing Comments:

I believe keyboards – without a doubt – are the most self-expressive instrument. I have been fortunate over my 57 years to see performances by greats from Arthur Rubinstein to Van Cliburn, from Dicky Betts to Keith Emerson, from Herbie Hancock to Keith Jarrett to Chick Corea.

There’s a line in the musical Forever Plaid that I’ve always loved: “Lost inside a chord.” I think that phrase applies to every pianist/keyboardist who paints his or her own melodies from a palate of infinite colors and shades.

Thanks for reading this lengthy post from an erstwhile professional, and thanks in advance for your help.

Regards,
BB

 

[satchmo]

Wow. That's quite the list.

Let's start with your wishlist, to get some of those out of the way.

You'll be hard pressed to find a keyboard or digital piano that doesn't have a Metronome, or a split keyboard function or transpose options. So that's three out of the way

Now the trick of your question is the layering of sounds and the recording of parts. With the stipulation that you want weighted keys and at least 73 of them, then you've kind of got a limited selection if you want to be able to record songs actually on the keyboard. The Yamaha Motif XS8 and the Roland Fantom G8 are the latest workstations with onboard sequencers so that you can record dozens of tracks each with their own sound, and essentially produce a song on the keyboard itself. They have hundreds of sounds from pianos to strings and synths to sound effects, etc. They can be quite complex and do take some getting used to, but for composing they are really handy.

On the Fantom you can layer 8 sounds at once (that is separate from the recorded sounds, where you can layer 128). I'm not sure of the Motif specs.

Things like the Nord Stage (excellent by the way), don't have sequencers on, so you can do very little in the way of recording parts. Most digital pianos, such as the Yamaha CP series, P series, Roland RD and FP, etc. only do basic one or two track recording. On the higher hend stage pianos, Roland RD series, Kawai MP, etc., you can layer 4 sounds or split the keyboard up in four ways.

There's lots of options out there if you ignore the recording part of your question (especially considering you can do everything on computer nowadays).

For my money, I'd go with a Kawai MP8 or CA51 to suit your needs. They have a full length wooden key action that is identical to the one's used in Kawai's grand pianos, excellent piano sound, and good electric pianos and organs. The MP8 is more of a stage piano so it has more sounds and more configurability, but the CA51 is a beauty to look at when set up in your house.

The Nords (I use an electro 2) are fantastic machines, but the acoustic piano sounds tend not to be as good as on some of the other brands. So if you are willing to sacrifice a touch on the acoustic piano to get fabulous rhodes and organ sounds as well as synths, then the Stage 76 or 88 may just be for you. The one advantage to Nord is that they come up with new sounds for the keyboards that can be uploaded via USB. None of the other stage pianos can have sounds added to their "permanent" memory.

Most of the higher end pianos will give you the pedalling options you're looking for.

Brand wise, I wouldn't worry too much. The difference in brand is largely one of personal preference in terms of sounds and touch. Kawai and Roland come with 3 year warranties and Yamaha has a two year warranty.

The best suggestion I can give you is to go out and try as many as you can and see which one "speaks" to you. If you're adamant about doing more than basic recording on the keyboard, than look at the workstations available, if you don't mind recording on a computer then it opens up some more models for your consideration.

Best of luck.

 

[BistroBaron]

Great post; on point with things I didn't know - thanks for your help!

 

[PianoMan]

The above post covered pretty much everything. For what your needs seem to be, and your budget tending to be decent, I'd second the notion of the Nord Stage. I had a chance to try one in the store, and everyone says the pianos don't sound good, but I was surprised by how decent they sounded. See if you can try one, because ultimately the biggest difference between the Nord keyboards and the Rolands and Yamahas and Kawais, is that they have digital drawbars (LED lights, not physical ones, but still). You mentioned you used to play hammond so the drawbars might appeal to you. They also have all the chorus and percussion options organs have.

For whatever you get, if you plan on using organ sounds as well as piano... you might want to consider getting a second midi controller. This is basically a keyboard that has no internal sounds (just the keys in other words) that you would hook up to your main keyboard to play its sounds. This way you could have both actions, organ-style and piano-style. Something to consider.

On a personal note I use a Roland RD-300sx. The newer model is the Roland RD-300gx. Light weight, and pretty good sounds. The higher model is the RD-700gx which I tried briefly in stores. VERY good piano action, ivory-feel with escapement or something, quite good. A lot of splits, effects, etc. On my keyboard I like the organs, rhodes, acoustic pianos, and there's a few pads and such, so the 700gx would have all of that plus a ton more.

I would check out the Roland rd-700gx, Nord Stage, and the Yamaha CP300 (also has VERY nice action, I played on this for a good hour in the store and was surprised at how good it felt and sounded. It also has internal speakers that are quite powerful. Heavy though... 70 pounds). I can't comment on the Kawai pianos, I haven't tried them.

 

[elwoodblues1969]

Hello BistroBaron,

I just read your post & with all of your needs taken into consideration,I can't think of a more ideal keyboard for you,than a Kurzweil PC3.

Please note;

The Roland Fantom G is laced with bugs & the overall sound quality is comparible to the previous Fantom X series....which is..well...there is no nice way to say this,since you need authentic acoustic sounds,so I have to be completely candid with you...the Fantom is garbage,in comparison to Kurzweil...particularly with regard to the new PC3 series.

Don't take my word for it though...just go to www.kurzweilmusicsystems.com & read over the specifications & listen to the sound demos.You may also want to check out www.sonikmatter.com for more information & any future queries.

I strongly urge you to contact Dave Weiser at (e-mail address removed) as he is the head sound engineer in Kurzweil's research & development dept..

He's a good man,as he devotes an enormous amount of his time towards product support to Kurzweil users and he provides the best customer support in the business,hands down!

It would also be in your best interest to check out www.zzounds.com as they sell the Kurzweil PC3 76-note for $1,999.95.

All the best,

Elwood

 

[BistroBaron]

Thanks much - will check it out for sure. /bb