Roland FPE50 doesn't do MIDI! Warning!

[CharlieWorton]

I was totally sold, ready to put my money down on a new Roland E50: great keyboard action, superb SuperNatural piano sounds, over 1000 built in sounds, microphone input with effects, expandable number of sounds... I mean, the list just goes on an on. And then, someone alerted me to the E50's fatal flaw: it only has oneMIDI channel enabled, as opposed to 16 on most MIDI equipped boards. In addition, none of the rhythm sounds can be sent over MIDI. This all makes the E50 useless as a studio production machine, which was my intended use forthe instrument.

I was shocked, floored. The bottom line is that, at least with Roland, the phrase 'MIDI capable' and the presence of a USB MIDI jack, does not mean that the instrument is fully MIDI capable. Thank God I didn't make the purchase and then discover this 6 months down the road, when I finally got around to setting up my MIDI connections!

So, a word to those considering an E50: don't ever plan on doing anything with MIDI with the instrument. Roland has crippled it sufficiently as to make that impossible.

I wound up with a Yamaha DGX 670,and am satisfied that I got the best overall value for my money. The 670 lacks the triple sensor keyboard found in the E50, as well as a bunch of other things; but at least it is fully MIDI compliant. Points to Yamaha for that.
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[Gourockian]

Something doesn't sound quite right.

On checking the Midi implementation chart for the Roland E-50, it shows the normal 16 channels are available but the chart for the FPE-50 only refers to Ch 4. Incidentally, the specs for the first one showed polyphony as being 256 but the second has 64.

I'm not up to date with Roland products so, I'm wondering, are these two different models? It would seem strange that a workstation would only have 1 Midi channel.

 

[SeaGtGruff]

Interesting. And it uses Channel 4 rather than, say, Channel 1.

Yes, the E-50 and the FP-E50 are different models. The FP-E50 is a portable digital piano, whereas the E-50 is a discontinued music workstation.

Although the FP-E50 wouldn't be sufficient for anyone who wants a 16-channel or 32-channel multitimbral instrument, it could still be a good choice for someone who would only need its MIDI abilities for using the FP-E50 as a MIDI keyboard controller. It's pretty easy to split a single-channel MIDI output into multiple channels based on the Note values.

On the other hand, the other channel messages might be tricky to work with.

 

[Gourockian]

Thanks for the confirmation about the different models. The question is, which keyboard was the OP originally thinking of buying? His title says FEP50 but in the text he refers to the E50 four times so it would appear that either he or the "someone" who gave him the bad news was confused by the similar-sounding model names. I'm kind of hoping that it was the FPE50, in which case he made the right choice in going for the DGX 670.

 

[Old No7]

The FP-E50 also has significant limitations on its arranger/accompaniment capabilities too. You can't change drum kits, vary the volumes of (or mute) the parts (other than the main tone), and the canned style arrangements don't loop -- and they will end just as you get a groove going.

Definitely "Try before you buy" on that board -- and be careful with what you want, versus what you get.

I'd dare say it's more of a "fun piano" for a beginner or intermediate player -- and nowhere near what a studio board or workstation should be.

Old No7

 

[Biggles]

Whilst the e50 may have limitations remember it is not a studio or stage piano.

It is simply a home entertainment piano and the arranger features enhance its marketability.

All a home player really wants is a USB connection to enable the use of a Piano learning App.

 

[papasmurph]

I prefer the keybed on the FP-E50 (not a piano player, and is graded hammer action good for organs, accompaniment etc anyway?), and the DGX-670 is quite heavy/bulky, but it's a great piano/accompaniment combo, with much more settings and effects than can be comprehended in a jiffy.

 

[CharlieWorton]

Hi, all -I'm the OP that started this thread. The keyboard I'm referring to is the new FP-E50, which was introduced about a year ago. It will send on one MIDI channel only, user assignable through 1 to 16. It will receive on MIDI channel 4, which is not user assignable. No part of the drums or percussion can be recorded over MIDI, and only one voice can be recorded; so if you have layered piano and strings, for example, only one will be recorded.

I'm pretty angry with Roland for doing this. MIDI technology has been around for 40 years, and the cost for implementing it is in the pennies. Had they wanted to build a full MIDI capable machine, I think they could have done so without incurring much cost. I suspect they were concerned with competing with their Fantom lineup; so they deliberately skewered the FP-E50.

The FP-E50 offers great potential to the solo stage musician, and just being a 'fun' machine to play with, and entertain friends. But if you have hopes of generating something worthwhile in your home studio, the FP-E50 will stymie your efforts to build some decent music. And it didn't have to be that way.

I'm also disappointed that Roland didn't bring attention to this particular skewering of the machine. There are a lot of people - me included - who simply assume that something with the MIDI logo and a USB plug will have full MIDI. In this case, that's clearly not the case; but I'll bet that Roland plans on selling a bunch of keyboards to people who simply assume that MIDI is there. It's only when they get around to trying to use it - months after all return policies have lapsed - that they discover the truth. Hence this warning.

 

[Gourockian]

Yep, it definitely looks like Roland has dropped the ball on this one by limiting the Midi capabilities. At least, you were made aware of it before committing to purchase so, in a sense, that's a plus. If it's any consolation, Roland are not alone when it comes to Midi issues.

My 1996 Yamaha AR-100 is a tremendous organ with generally good Midi specs but it lacks one feature that I miss. It doesn't transmit Transpose commands so if I have another Midi instrument hooked up to it, I have to manually change pitch on both separately. Not ideal but there it is.

 

[Biggles]

Black mark to Roland for their website shows it being used in a small venue gigging environment and describes its creative capabilities.

I would not consider it to be suitable for anything other than for the Home Player or Newbie user. It is a reasonably cheap DP with some arranger features, that it it, it is not a cut down RD2000.

What I do not understand is why Roland has the e50 and an RD08 available when they are at the same price point?

 

[Pupin]

Is this also the case with the FP-30? As far as I remember, in the menu you have to enable only one MIDI channel on which it will send signals?

 

[TedS]

The FP-E50 is a mid-range style piano with some arranger features. It inherits most of its OS and feature set from previous Roland style pianos like the FP-50 and FP-80. So no features were deleted or left out. It's not, and was never intended to be a workstation.

Earlier in this thread, there was confusion with mention of the Roland E-50 which is (was) a middle-of-the-range arranger workstation. That board has a built-in sequencer and a much more flexible MIDI implementation that allows sending rhythm notes out via one or more MIDI channels.

It sounds to me like the original poster would be best served by a basic stage piano, or a piano-weighted MIDI controller without built-in rhythms. Use its single-channel MIDI output to drive an arranger workstation or module like the Roland BK-7m or Ketron Event. My $.02.

 

[andreacarducci]

Qualcosa non suona proprio bene.

Controllando la tabella di implementazione Midi per Roland E-50 , si vede che sono disponibili i normali 16 canali, ma la tabella per FPE-50 fa riferimento solo al canale 4. Tra l'altro, le specifiche per il primo indicavano una polifonia di 256, mentre per il secondo ne sono presenti 64.

Non sono aggiornato sui prodotti Roland, quindi mi chiedo: si tratta di due modelli diversi? Sembrerebbe strano che una workstation abbia un solo canale MIDI.

La Fpe 50 non è una workstation ma un pianoforte per live, piano bar o per divertimento da pensionati. Se vuoi produrre prendi una master e usa una daw con pianoteq o simili. Per me Roland questa volta ha fatto una scelta sbagliata.

 

[Biggles]

La Fpe 50 non è una workstation ma un pianoforte per live, piano bar o per divertimento da pensionati. Se vuoi produrre prendi una master e usa una daw con pianoteq o simili. Per me Roland questa volta ha fatto una scelta sbagliata.

Translated.
The Fpe 50 is not a workstation but a piano for live, piano bar or for retirement fun. If you want to produce, take a master's degree and use a daw with pianoteq or similar. For me Roland made a wrong choice this time.

Note to Andrea, please translate your posts into English.

Nota per Andrea, per favore traduci i tuoi post in inglese.

 

[andreacarducci]

La Fpe 50 non è una workstation ma un pianoforte per live, piano bar o per divertimento da pensionati. Se vuoi produrre prendi una master e usa una daw con pianoteq o simili. Per me Roland questa volta ha fatto una scelta sbagliata.

The Fpe 50 isn't a workstation, but a piano for concerts, piano bars, or for retirement enjoyment. If you want to produce, get a master and use a DAW with Pianoteq or similar. In my opinion, Roland made the wrong choice this time.

 

[Gourockian]

Translated.
The Fpe 50 is not a workstation but a piano for live, piano bar or for retirement fun. If you want to produce, take a master's degree and use a daw with pianoteq or similar. For me Roland made a wrong choice this time.

Note to Andrea, please translate your posts into English.

Nota per Andrea, per favore traduci i tuoi post in inglese.

Looks like in future, you need to include the words " in future". At least, he did what you asked.

 

[andreacarducci]

Something doesn't sound quite right.

On checking the Midi implementation chart for the Roland E-50, it shows the normal 16 channels are available but the chart for the FPE-50 only refers to Ch 4. Incidentally, the specs for the first one showed polyphony as being 256 but the second has 64.

I'm not up to date with Roland products so, I'm wondering, are these two different models? It would seem strange that a workstation would only have 1 Midi channel.

The FPE50 is not a workstation but a stage piano for live performances or a keyboard for retired entertainment.

 

[andreacarducci]

Anche le capacità di arrangiamento e accompagnamento dell'FP-E 50 presentano notevoli limitazioni. Non è possibile cambiare batteria, variare il volume (o silenziare) le parti (a parte il tono principale), e gli arrangiamenti predefiniti non sono in loop, e termineranno non appena si inizia a suonare un groove.

Su quel forum vale sicuramente la regola "Prova prima di acquistare" e fai attenzione a ciò che vuoi rispetto a ciò che ottieni.

Oserei dire che è più un "pianoforte divertente" per un principiante o un musicista intermedio, e non si avvicina minimamente a quello che dovrebbe essere una console da studio o una workstation.

Vecchio n. 7

Quando Roland pubblicizza i suoi prodotti tramite recensioni video o articoli su riviste specializzate, dovrebbe indicare chiaramente cosa vende. Credo che abbia deliberatamente omesso la questione della multitimbricità per ragioni di marketing. Anche se oggigiorno si lavora con DAW e PC tramite master keyboard, non si possono escludere utenti amatoriali o semi-professionisti, limitando così la multitimbricità. Un 5 per Roland.

 

[andreacarducci]

Sono rimasto scioccato anche quando ho scoperto di non poter fare nulla con i 16 canali MIDI. Persino il Casio giocattolo di mio nipote ce l'ha. Il punto importante è che quando Roland pubblicizza i suoi prodotti tramite recensioni video o articoli su riviste specializzate, dovrebbe dichiarare chiaramente cosa sta vendendo. Credo che abbiano deliberatamente omesso di dichiarare il "bug" del multitimbro per motivi di marketing. Anche se oggigiorno si lavora con DAW e PC tramite master keyboard, non si possono escludere utenti amatoriali o semi-professionisti, limitando così la capacità multitimbrica. Ho anche scritto a un tecnico che si occupa di programmazione di hardware musicale per vedere se Roland potesse fornire la capacità multitimbrica con un aggiornamento, ma mi ha risposto che l'FPE50 ha un sistema chiuso e un processore limitato. Roland ha mantenuto bassi i costi di produzione. Ma se invece di 900 euro fosse costato 1000 euro, credo che l'avrebbero venduto comunque. Il mio voto per Roland è 5.

 

[anotherscott]

There are a lot of people - me included - who simply assume that something with the MIDI logo and a USB plug will have full MIDI. In this case, that's clearly not the case

There's not really any such thing as "full MIDI." If a keyboard sends MIDI out when you press its keys, it's a MIDI keyboard. Beyond that, every MIDI keyboard does some MIDI things and not others. There are countless variations. So for example, you say, "It will send on one MIDI channel only, user assignable through 1 to 16," -- that describes a whole lot of MIDI keyboards. (In fact, I would not be surprised to find that the majority of MIDI keyboards only transmit on one or maybe two channels, i.e. for a layer/split.) That said, I would also be surprised that a keyboard with arranger functions cannot send its accompaniment data out over MIDI, I'll give you that.

My 1996 Yamaha AR-100 is a tremendous organ with generally good Midi specs but it lacks one feature that I miss. It doesn't transmit Transpose commands so if I have another Midi instrument hooked up to it, I have to manually change pitch on both separately. Not ideal but there it is.

That's actually common, because there is actually no such thing as a standard MIDI command for transpose (though I"m not sure whether that might have changed in MIDI 2.0). If you transpose your keyboard and it also seems to be transposing another keyboard attached to it via MIDI, it's almost certainly not because it sent a transpose command, but because the designers of the board you're playing have decided to program it to shift the MIDI data for each note you play as you play it, simulating the effect of having hit the transpose button on the other keyboard as well. (Well, until you actually go to hit a key on that keyboard, and discover that, indeed, it has not been transposed!) Some keyboards do send that transposed data, some do not, but either way, it's not because one keyboard has a more "complete" MIDI implementation (i.e. more MIDI commands implemented) than the other.

I would not consider it to be suitable for anything other than for the Home Player or Newbie user. It is a reasonably cheap DP with some arranger features, that it it, it is not a cut down RD2000.

What I do not understand is why Roland has the e50 and an RD08 available when they are at the same price point?

I think you kind of answer your own question there. The FPE50 is actually a bit cheaper than the RD08 (at least as I type this, in the U.S.), but even so, they are simply different products for different markets. The FPE50 is targeted at the kind of buyer who might otherwise choose a Yamaha DGX-670, Korg XE20, Casio PX-S3100. These are primarily (as you say) home-oriented boards (which isn't to say they couldn't also be suitable for some kinds of performances), where a key feature is their auto-accompaniment capabilities. In terms of overall features/capabilities, the RD-08 would be better compared with Yamaha CK88, Casio PX5S, Numa Piano X. These are more "pro level" boards, generally better suited for performing musicians, with better MIDI implementations (e.g. 5-pin connection, MIDI zoning), more sound editing capabilities, more real-time controls, more flexibility in how you can assign sounds over the keyboard.... but no auto-accompaniment (and possibly no speakers, either). The front panel interfaces of the latter group are also generally more suited to live performance compared to those of the first group (i.e. playing in a live ensemble as opposed to with auto accompaniment).