Kawai MP11SE and monitor speakers

[Kaneda]

I will be ordering a Kawai MP11SE tonight or tomorrow, together with a pair of iLoud MTM monitor speakers.
One small problem, though.
The iLoud MTM have combined balanced XLR and balanced 1/4 inch TRS inputs (one for each monitor). The MP11SE has unbalanced line out jacks, but also has XLR outputs. In the manual, I see that the XLR outputs on the MP11SE are fixed, which means that you cannot control the volume from the keyboard.

Googling has not helped, have tried homerecording.com but no success, can't seem to be able to register on the site.

Anyone have any idea ?

iLoud MTM

High-resolution compact studio monitor

www.ikmultimedia.com

Kawai MP Stage Pianos

Kawai MP stage pianos - for music professionals who do not accept compromise.

www.kawaimp.com

 

[Biggles]

OK folks the Book will soon open as to how long the Kawai will last before it is returned.

My bet would be on 26 days.

 

[Kaneda]

Think I'd better sign off...

 

[CowboyNQ]

Anyone have any idea ?

About what, precisely? I'm not understanding what your question is.

 

[Kaneda]

About what, precisely? I'm not understanding what your question is.

The manual of the IK iLoud MTM speakers 'speaks' of balanced inputs, either XLR or jack TRS. The MP11SE has unbalanced line outputs, so I'd be using unbalanced TS jacks. I was just wondering whether this would work with the iLoud monitors.
These monitors have only been out since last June, so not much information is available online yet. I was hoping someone here could tell me whether it would be safe to hook the speakers up to the keyboard with normal TS cables.
I believe that using TRS cables in unbalanced TS jack inputs could cause problems, but not the other way around...

 

[CowboyNQ]

Gotcha - now I understand your issue. Dunno brother I've never tried using a TS plug in an input that expects TRS.

A bit of Googling reveals that it might work. Or it might not (ie it may cause hum and generally degrade the sound quality). Depending on your monitor.

Sorry I can't be more definitive. You could ask the manufacturer themselves - or select an alternative monitor that's more fit for purpose.

 

[Kaneda]

Just found a long thread on Gearslutz, someone from IK Multimedia is on the forum as well. I'll see if I can get some answers there. Thanks !

 

[Kaneda]

Seems like there are some issues with these MTM speakers. Think I might go for something with a more 'confirmed' reputation.
Any suggestions ?
I hear that KRK is very good, or should I look at other brands ?

 

[Biggles]

Have you searched this forum, if you do you will find plenty of results.

I have a pair of 8 inch Behringers which sound very good to my old ears.

You may want to check out the Yamaha Stagepas range which I have tried and use from time to time.

Bose L1 are used at a music event I go to twice a year and they sound superb.

 

[Kaneda]

I've looked at Behringer as well, most of the monitor speakers get good reviews. In any case, need monitor speakers with a 3/8 mic mount, don't feel confident placing them 'loose' on a platform...
Those iLoud MTM really seem cool. The 'issues' I talked about, were the cables from the Mic that came with the speakers to calibrate them. Apparently, some people had problems with bass coming out of the speakers. Others are fine.
But I guess you can have problems with any brand if you're out of luck.
Still, those iLoud MTM cost a lot more than even those Nord Piano Monitors, so one's bound to expect top quality.

Honestly, I'm looking for speakers that will make the MP11SE sound like a real piano, whether it's a high-end upright piano or a baby grand. But I guess that's asking too much unless you're willing to spend thousands... (there I go again with my perfectionism).

 

[anotherscott]

Yes, you can use TS cables even if one or both devices you're connecting are wired for TRS. You just don't get the benefit of a balanced signal, which is mostly an issue for long cable runs. In fact, if your runs are under ten feet, there is an argument that using unbalanced cables is better. See https://www.epiphan.com/blog/audio-cables-balanced-vs-unbalanced/

Honestly, I'm looking for speakers that will make the MP11SE sound like a real piano, whether it's a high-end upright piano or a baby grand. But I guess that's asking too much unless you're willing to spend thousands... (there I go again with my perfectionism).

JBL LSR305 (or the new version LSR305P mkII) gets a lot of praise at moderate cost.

Though if you're trying to get the sounds of there being a real piano in the room, I'm not sure that's possible with ANY pair of speakers. Sound emanates from a piano and interacts with the room with certain directional characteristics that are impossible to duplicate with two speakers. The most convincing approach is the kind of thing Yamaha does with the Avant Grand, using more than two speakers, with signals processed and speakers positioned to better approach what you hear off a piano's soundboard.

 

[Biggles]

Totally agree with Scott.

You want piano sound cancel the Kawaii or just return it in a couple of weeks and buy an acoustic piano.

As for speakers I have given you two of the best in the Yamaha Stagepas (go for the 600 version), and the Bose L1.

Again I am done with this thread.

 

[Kaneda]

Yes, you can use TS cables even if one or both devices you're connecting are wired for TRS. You just don't get the benefit of a balanced signal, which is mostly an issue for long cable runs. In fact, if your runs are under ten feet, there is an argument that using unbalanced cables is better. See https://www.epiphan.com/blog/audio-cables-balanced-vs-unbalanced/


JBL LSR305 (or the new version LSR305P mkII) gets a lot of praise at moderate cost.

Though if you're trying to get the sounds of there being a real piano in the room, I'm not sure that's possible with ANY pair of speakers. Sound emanates from a piano and interacts with the room with certain directional characteristics that are impossible to duplicate with two speakers. The most convincing approach is the kind of thing Yamaha does with the Avant Grand, using more than two speakers, with signals processed and speakers positioned to better approach what you hear off a piano's soundboard.

Thanks.
As for the 'real' sounding piano, I wouldn't go that far. Maybe I expressed myself the wrong way. I just would like to hear all the subtleties the MP11SE can emit as far as piano sounds go. Guess that's more reasonable.

Already looked at the JBL 305P mkII, reports of quite a lot of hiss...

Taken a look at the Yamaha HS range : the HS5I might be enough for the space I'm in, and can't find anything negative about them but I don't think they have 3/8 mic mounting points...

 

[Kaneda]

The more reviews I read or watch about studio monitors, the more confused I get. What I hear most is separating the highs, mids and lows, in studio mixing environments, of course. A studio is not what I'm in. The room I'll be playing in, is far from being acoustically perfect, nor is any room in any house or appartment. Also, monitor speakers tend to sound very 'clean' as opposed to the warmer sound one's used to hear coming out of a hifi sound system of home cinema setup.
And frankly, there's so much choice that I can't see the forest for the trees...

As I'm very happy with the sound produced by my Laney AH150 amp (which I'm now using with my Korg Kross 2 88), I've pointed my attention to amps instead. The Laney is overkill for a domestic environment, for sure, but I'd rather use speakers or amps at a quarter or fifth of their max power output instead of having to crank up tiny speakers all the way (the iLoud speakers I talked about, whether it's the Micro or MTM ones, sound great at first, but ultimately, they do sound quite artificial to my untrained ears (which is logical since they're trying to imitate large 8 inch monitors at only a fraction of the size). So I've decided against that.

Anyway, my search directed me to Roland : the CM30 cube amp seems to be the most versatile little amp you can buy, whether it's for the home, a small home studio or a stage. I'd buy 2 of course, to link them together in stereo. They're not too big, and I can mount them on a stand since they have a 3/8 inch thread on the bottom (which I will be doing). And they seem to tick all the boxes. Moreover, about 95% of reviews anywhere on the web are raving.
Some people recommend monitor speakers because of the clean, flat sound, others will prefer amps because they sound warmer and sound a bit more 'natural'. Won't be disappointed, I'm sure.

 

[Biggles]

Checkout a Vox VX50KB.

They look far better in a living room or spare room than the industrial looking Roland.

 

[b3maniac]

I doubt you will be satisfied with piano sounds through that Roland amp. All options have their own limitations and benefits. It comes to a decision point as to which source best meets your ears. At home I use earphones if I want the best quality (to my ears), otherwise I use a powered speaker and understand it is my trade-off.

 

[anotherscott]

Won't be disappointed, I'm sure.

Famous last words!

I would not expect a great piano sound from the CM30. Can't see much reason to pick it over the JBL 305 unless you're traveling/gigging with it.

 

[Kaneda]

Checkout a Vox VX50KB.

They look far better in a living room or spare room than the industrial looking Roland.

They look cool, but there are some doubts about build quality, apparently. Lots of hiss at low volumes, also...

I doubt you will be satisfied with piano sounds through that Roland amp.

Quite a lot of people seem to be suggest the contrary... Of course, everything's subjective.

All options have their own limitations and benefits. It comes to a decision point as to which source best meets your ears. At home I use earphones if I want the best quality (to my ears), otherwise I use a powered speaker and understand it is my trade-off.

I will be using headphones a lot as well, but I don't think monitor speakers will sound 'right' to me for when I'm not using headphones. Like I said, I like the way my Laney AH150 sounds, I have heard how piano sounds through that amp, and I can't imagine the CM-30's being completely different. But you're right, everything's a trade-off, something I'll have to learn and live with...

Famous last words!

Mark these words !

Can't see much reason to pick it over the JBL 305

There are lots of good options as far as monitor speakers go, including that JBL305. But I dismissed all the ones without 3/8 inch mounting points : where my setup will be, placing expensive monitors loose on a stand is a no go, because they will most definitely meet with the floor. On a desk, yes, but on floor stands, those things cannot be stable in any way. That's why I was looking at the iLoud Micro and MTM speakers because they both have those mounts. If a monitor like a Yamaha FS8 tumbles to the floor, it is probably game over. Not saying that speakers screwed on a stand can't fall over, but in the case of these CM-30's, they're sturdy enough to survive the fall.
Anyway, that's not the main reason why I opted for the Roland speakers.

 

[CowboyNQ]

Can you get yourself to a pro audio shop? Maybe listening to various speakers in-store might help you narrow down what you’ll like. You seem to be placing a lot of priority on speaker stands and not a lot on actual sound.

Curious to me that you’re prepared to leave a computer tablet loose on a music stand but your speakers need to be locked down like a convict on a chain gang.

As someone who carts both speakers and tablets all over the country, I can tell you which will survive a fall from a moderate height more readily. I won’t give the answer away but here’s a hint - it’s not the tablet.

 

[Kaneda]

I would have to look for a store like that, don't know of one in the vicinity...
But not convinced about monitor speakers. They have to be calibrated, placed in exactly the right position or they might not sound right. Seems like a hassle, if you ask me. I know that you only have to do it once (in theory, anyway), but still.
Would be great to have something that you just put down or mount on a stand, switch on and Bob's your uncle.

Also been looking at things like the Bose S1 Pro, the Roland BA-330. Very convenient, but they're really overkill for home use (the fact that they're PA systems should give it away, really). But the ease of use is unbeatable. Hate that you need to get two of them for a true stereo effect, which obviously makes for a very expensive solution...
Dunno, those CM-30's look like a pretty solid option.

Oh, and my iPad has a rugged case