Roland RD2000: Remote patch change via MIDI


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Hi folks,
I work as a keyboard player for a leisure resort which provides everything we need for the job of backing their fabulous shows, sets for dancing etc. They have recently splashed out on 2 Roland RD2000s (we have 2 complete band setups within the theatre) to replace our ageing RD700s. As most of the show material is played to a click track run from a Mac we have used the opportunity to automate some of the more tiresome tasks eg lighting cues and instrument and effects patches. To achieve this with the RD700 we sent a bank change (controller 32=0, 00=85) and the program change number of the required setup (as it was called then) and the keyboard went to that setup number. All the info I needed was in the user manual.
I am hoping that the same can be achieved with the RD2000 though it's likely to be a little more complicated as the 700's setups (1-100) have been superseded on the 2000 by 15 banks (A-O) of 20 programs. I have downloaded and studied the quick start guide, parameter guide and midi implementation (a language which continues to baffle me after 20 years of trying to understand!) but so far have not been able to discover what is required to change programs.
I also use midi bass pedals on occasion (Roland PK5) which I used with the 700 by changing the tone in the "internal sounds" menu of each setup to a bass sound on channel 16, that being the transmit channel I have set on the pedals. I have not yet found a way on the 2000 to edit any sound that is not controlled by zones s1-s8 which guess correspond to midi channels 1-8.
If anyone out there can shed any light on either or both of these areas I would be truly grateful.
Many thanks, Graham
 
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SeaGtGruff

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Okay, it looks like the RD-2000 uses Tones, Programs, and Scenes. It almost sounds like Scenes might be the closest thing to the Setups on the RD-700, but I haven't really studied the manuals for either keyboard in great depth, so that's mostly just a guess based on the fact that there are 100 possible Scenes.

Anyway, the MIDI Bank Select and Program Change values for the various Tones and Programs are listed on pages 70 - 83 of the Parameter Guide, but I couldn't find any information about how to select the Scenes via MIDI. If the 100 Scenes are simply copies of selected Programs that you've organized into a particular order (and I'm not sure whether that's all they are), then there wouldn't really be a need to select a Scene via MIDI, since all you'd really need to do is select the desired Program instead. The Tones are listed on pages 70 - 79, and the Programs are listed on pages 80 - 83, so those last 4 pages of the Parameter Guide would seem to be where the information you're looking for is listed. To use the same format that you used in your post, it would be as follows:

Controller 32 (Bank Select LSB) = 64, 65, or 66, depending on the desired Program
Controller 0 (Bank Select MSB) = 84
Program Change = 1 through 128, depending on the desired Program

Note that Roland lists the Program Change values as 1 through 128 (which is common), but the actual numeric values that go inside the MIDI messages are 0 through 127. Depending on the software or hardware you're using to send patch changes to the Roland RD-2000, you may or may not need to subtract 1 from the numbers listed in the "PC" columns to get the value which actually needs to be sent to the RD-2000 via MIDI.

What are you using to send patch changes to the RD-2000?

I haven't looked into your second question yet, regarding the pedals. Let's tackle one thing at a time! :)

EDIT: PS-- If you want to keep it simple, and 128 Programs are enough, you could just set up the first 128 Programs (A-01 through G-08), so you could send Controller 32 = 64 and Controller 0 = 84, then send the desired Program Change.
 
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Okay, it looks like the RD-2000 uses Tones, Programs, and Scenes. It almost sounds like Scenes might be the closest thing to the Setups on the RD-700, but I haven't really studied the manuals for either keyboard in great depth, so that's mostly just a guess based on the fact that there are 100 possible Scenes.

Anyway, the MIDI Bank Select and Program Change values for the various Tones and Programs are listed on pages 70 - 83 of the Parameter Guide, but I couldn't find any information about how to select the Scenes via MIDI. If the 100 Scenes are simply copies of selected Programs that you've organized into a particular order (and I'm not sure whether that's all they are), then there wouldn't really be a need to select a Scene via MIDI, since all you'd really need to do is select the desired Program instead. The Tones are listed on pages 70 - 79, and the Programs are listed on pages 80 - 83, so those last 4 pages of the Parameter Guide would seem to be where the information you're looking for is listed. To use the same format that you used in your post, it would be as follows:

Controller 32 (Bank Select LSB) = 64, 65, or 66, depending on the desired Program
Controller 0 (Bank Select MSB) = 84
Program Change = 1 through 128, depending on the desired Program

Note that Roland lists the Program Change values as 1 through 128 (which is common), but the actual numeric values that go inside the MIDI messages are 0 through 127. Depending on the software or hardware you're using to send patch changes to the Roland RD-2000, you may or may not need to subtract 1 from the numbers listed in the "PC" columns to get the value which actually needs to be sent to the RD-2000 via MIDI.

What are you using to send patch changes to the RD-2000?

I haven't looked into your second question yet, regarding the pedals. Let's tackle one thing at a time! :)

EDIT: PS-- If you want to keep it simple, and 128 Programs are enough, you could just set up the first 128 Programs (A-01 through G-08), so you could send Controller 32 = 64 and Controller 0 = 84, then send the desired Program Change.
 
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Hi SeaGtGruff, thank you for taking the time to look at this. You found the right answer straight away by pointing me towards the parameter guide. I had looked through the contents and saw Program List but dismissed it thinking it would just be a list of the program names and the default tones in them. In fact it showed the bank and program change numbers I needed. I printed the relevant pages and took to the venue then sent a set of bank and program change messages on the program control channel and it worked just fine. I still don't get what the scenes are all about; i will look at that at a later date once I've got the programs set up and am used to getting round the instrument in a gig situation. Since you asked, we are using Qlab to run the click tracks, send midi to the keyboard, bass effects and guitar effects and to send cues for video screens.
I managed to send bank change and program change messages to channel 16 and save in a program to use with the bass pedals, however the original tone was produced rather than one I had edited. Also, there was no easy way to control the volume. I solved this by assigning the edited bass sound to zone 8 in each program to be used with the pedals and setting the pedals to midi channel 8. I set the key range to just A0 to prevent the bass sound playing from any other note on the keyboard as long as the split button is on. I can now control the volume from the main panel while the zone button is lit (red for local control) and when the zone button is off the bass sound plays from the pedals but not from the keyboard, even with the split turned off. Of course, i have had to sacrifice a zone to achieve this but hey, I only had 3 zones before so can live with it.
Thanks again for your help, I hope that if anyone else has a similar problem they may get some assistance from this thread.
 

SeaGtGruff

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I asked what you're using to send patch changes because different hardware, software, and documentation can use different formats for the data values that go with MIDI messages.

Inside the actual messages, the channels are numbered from 0 to 15, but these are commonly displayed as 1 to 16 in software and documentation.

Likewise, Bank Select MSB and LSB values, as well as Program Change values, are numbered from 0 to 127, but are commonly displayed as 1 to 128 in software and documentation-- although sometimes they're mixed, with Bank Select MSB and LSB values displayed as 0 to 127, but with Program Change values displayed as 1 to 128.

For instance, Ableton Live numbers the values as 1 to 128, as shown below.

But Acoustica Mixcraft numbers the values as 0 to 127, as shown below.

The documentation for the Roland RD-2000 uses mixed formats-- Bank Select MSB and LSB values are listed as 0 to 127, but Program Change values are listed as 1 to 128, as shown below.

Due to this confusing way that different sources express the values, you need to pay attention to whatever formats are used by the hardware, software, and documentation that you're using, so you can make any adjustments as needed. Some software might even let you specify which numbering style you prefer, so you can set it to match the documentation you're using.

I'm not sure what format QLab uses, but it's possible that you might need to adjust the values which are shown in Roland's documentation.

For instance, if you were using Ableton Live, you would need to add 1 to the Bank Select MSB and LSB values when entering them into Ableton Live, since Roland uses 0 to 127 but Ableton Live uses 1 to 128. But you would enter the Program Change values into Ableton Live exactly as they're given by Roland (1 to 128).

On the other hand, if you were using Acoustica Mixcraft, you would enter the Bank Select MSB and LSB values into Acoustica Mixcraft exactly as they're given by Roland (0 to 127). But you would need to subtract 1 from the Program Change values, since Roland uses 1 to 128 but Acoustica Mixcraft uses 0 to 127.

[sarcasm]Isn't this fun? We should all write to the keyboard makers, software designers, and document writers to thank them for helping us maintain our sanity![/sarcasm] ;)

Here are a couple of screenshots from Ableton Live. If you enter 0 for Bank (MSB), Sub (LSB), or Pgm, those fields will display "---" for "don't send this value." But you can enter 1 through 128 (and Ableton will subtract 1 from the specified values before it inserts them into the MIDI messages).

upload_2017-5-9_1-52-50.png


upload_2017-5-9_1-57-40.png


For comparison, here are screenshots from Acoustica Mixcraft, showing how it uses 0 to 127 for the Bank MSB, Bank LSB, and Program:

upload_2017-5-9_1-59-30.png


upload_2017-5-9_2-0-23.png


Now here are two screenshots from Roland's documentation. In the first one you can see that the LSB can have a low value of 0, which means the Bank Select MSB and LSB use the 0 to 127 format. But in the second one you can see that the PC (Program Change) goes from a low value of 1 to a high value of 128:

upload_2017-5-9_2-2-19.png


upload_2017-5-9_2-5-26.png


So if QLab uses the 0 to 127 numbering scheme, you would want to send the following values to select Program A-01 on the RD-2000:

Controller 32 = 64
Controller 0 = 84
Program Change = 0 (instead of 1 as listed by Roland)
 
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Thanks SeaGtGruff. That's a very detailed explanation of the confusing differences between the numbering systems used by the various manufacturers we buy from. One would think that after more than 30 years of making midi instruments they would have agreed on one numbering system.
I used an old hardware sequencer to test the RD2000 yesterday and chose a 128 program (program bank G, number 4 I think from memory). The sequencer only allowed up to 127 so I input that and it selected G 4 as I had intended. There were no issues with the bank change numbers; as you point out Roland uses 0-127 so they were good to use as they gave them. I have advised my colleague who is to make a midi file containing the patch changes of this anomaly; once he gets a list from me it will take him about 2 minutes to make the file and send it to the sound operator so it's no big deal if it's not quite right the first time. We went through the process with the RD700; it worked fine and has been used successfully in the shows so whatever he did last time was the right way. Furthermore, we have a rehearsal for a new cast on Thursday so will be able to test and tweak if necessary
Cheers,
Graham
 
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