Trying to do simple Portamento Technique with Mini Moog...


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hi everyone, i have a vst arturia moog.. i know in general that there's a glide wheel etc, but i'm trying to do a bass porto slide
that sounds like the one here at 36 seconds in this song


i think i'm missing some very obvious other than setting the glide to the right value, can anyone take a quick listen and help?

thanks!
 
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happyrat1

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Normally when I'm going for a portamento effect on a synth sound on a hardware synth I simply hold down a key a few octaves below the melody and play the melody with my right hand.

The portamento effect creates a natural slide in the intervals between melody notes.

In this case it may be sliding downward from an octave above.

Gary ;)
 

SeaGtGruff

I meant to play that note!
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I was watching a Genesis concert on YouTube a year or two ago and that's what Tony Banks was doing-- holding down a key at the bottom (far left) of the keyboard with his left hand, then playing with his right hand.
 

happyrat1

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That's pretty much how Keith Emerson accomplished it in Lucky Man back in the 70's. That's the characteristic "moog slide" that portamento on a monotonic synthesizer gives.

Watch this clip starting at 5:09



Gary ;)
 
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Rayblewit

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Wow! I have never seen that clip before.
Kicking myself:eek:
My favourite ELP track. I will be playing that again. (Second fav is take a pebble)
Got me searching now.
Are all those wires just a gimmick?

Love music/ love life - ray
 

happyrat1

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Ray >>> I think that MOOG Rack Was custom built for Emerson back in the 70's.

As for gimmicky? Yeah, extremely. All of those sounds could just as easily been done with simpler, more modern equipment.

The Theremin was a nice touch.

You'll also notice that this was late in his career when paralysis robbed him of two fingers of his right hand. :(


Gary ;)
 
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can anyone take a quick listen and help?
Hey bassroy,

What I think's going on here:

Firstly, some super cool synth sounds.

Secondly, I'm assuming the figure you're trying to replicate is the one that goes 0:35 B; 0:36 Db; 0:37 Ab. I believe it's the Ab that's giving you trouble.

The trick to this bass sound is that it's not the same one with the sharp attack you can hear throughout the song. For those three notes there's a bass sound with very little attack, which almost sounds like a synth version of a fretless, it's got that low, buzzy frequency. The B and the Db are buried under the bright synthy stab and the bass drum, so it's hard to pull out the sound of the bass. However the Ab stands alone.

I really think to recreate this sound it's simply a matter of finding a good buzzy bass tone and getting a good chunk of the attack off it. Then set your pitch wheel to move + or - about 5 to 8 semitones from its neutral position.

Then to recreate the sound, start with your pitch wheel all the way down, hit Ab and push it up to neutral, which will give you that "glide" you're after.

To get it exactly the same, you'll need to experiment with how much attack you roll off the synth sound, how you time your key stroke and pitch wheel move, and differing settings of variance for the pitch wheel.

I had a quick muck around with it on my home keyboard and was able to get something pretty close using anywhere from 5 to 12 semitones, but a lot of that had to do with different timing, so I don't think there's "hard and fast" solution. A bit of mucking around will get you there.

Good luck!
 

Fred Coulter

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Are all those wires just a gimmick?

No, the wires are not a gimmick. Most modular synthesizers do not have normalized connections between the different modules. You needed a wire to get the sound of the oscillator to the filter. You needed a wire to get the envelope voltage from the envelope generator to the filter and the amp. You needed a wire to get the control voltage from the keyboard to the oscillator. Etc.

Basically, you need a crap ton of wires. (Or patch cords if you want to use the technical term.)

Some modular synths included some sort of normalization scheme. The eMu modular synthesizers (very expensive but very good) included the ability to set up the normal signal flow from module to module behind the scenes as you added modules. The front panel jacks overrode those signal paths. So for most sounds you wouldn't need any wires. Other semi-modular synths were generally set up with normalized paths but could be overridden. (The Arp 2600 was such a synth.) It was called semi-modular because it had patch points available that you could use with external equipment or to override the normalized signal paths, but generally used by itself. Examples of modern semi-modular synths are the Moog Mother-32 or the Pittsburg Lifeforms SV-1.

So, no, the wires aren't a gimmick. However, as happyrat1 said, there is a gimmick involved, in that the vast majority of the sounds played by Keith Emerson probably didn't require using the big modular Moog. In fact, from my vague memories of watching him play, he very seldom used it on stage at all. I think it was primarily used with the ribbon controller. He relied on the Minimoog for most of his synth work. (Until polyphonic synths became usable, the vast majority of his playing was on organ and piano, not synth.)

From talking to someone about the big modular Moog behind him, one reason it was so big was so that he could have a couple of sounds set up on it without having to repatch sounds live during the performance. If you had three sounds you'd use that night with two oscillators per sound, that meant six oscillator modules. Etc. But it did look good, didn't it.

[Edit] He also used the big modular synth for the sound between side one and side two of Brain Salad Surgery, in the middle of Karn Evil 9, and the sound at the end of Karn Evil 9. I don't think Minimoogs included a sequencer or sample and holds, which were essential for those sounds. For that you'd need a modular synth. [End edit.]

Recreating a MiniMoog on a big modular synth would require (off the top of my head), a keyboard that produces a control voltage, gate, & trigger; three oscillator modules, two envelope generators, a voltage controlled filter, a voltage controller amplifier, a white noise generator, and a ring modulator. And wires to connect them all. Heavy and expensive. (But more flexible than the MiniMoog itself.)
 
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SeaGtGruff

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I'm glad Fred replied, because I was stumped by the question. I don't think I would have ever figured out that "wires" was in reference to the patch cables! :)
 

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