Which CC for continuous control of Volume?

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Hi everyone,
I'm finishing up a MIDI controller project where I'd like to have continuous control of the volume of a synthesizer.

I was expecting CC 7 (VOLUME - Controls the Volume of a channel) to work, but was pretty disappointed that all synthesizers that I tried at a friends' studio did not respond at all to this at all. I also tried CC 11 (EXPRESSION - Expression is a percentage of volume) and had slightly better luck - with a NORD LEAD 3 responding as-expected.

Since I'm unable to test every synthesizer, I'm just wondering if anyone can tell me from experience what CC their synth is expecting as a default control of the volume.

Thanks for the help!
 
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CC#7 is the MIDI standard for Volume; CC#11 is the MIDI standard for Expression (you already knew that!). The solidifying of these CC#s as a "MIDI Standard" were not always consistent years ago; many older devices do not conform to the MIDI standard. As an example I own a Voce V5+ and it does not conform to the MIDI standard for expression. The developer uses CC#7 for expression; what he does is when CC#7 is received by the module his physical model converts CC#7 to CC#11 within the physical model itself. If I send CC#11 to the V5+ it is not recognized, only CC#7 is, but CC#7 is treated like CC#11. Voce also separately made a MIDI Drawbar unit and it has an expression jack on the unit however that jacks send CC#8 as expression, so it is not even compatible with the Voce V5+, which needs to receive CC#7 for expression and modern units need to receive CC#11. The expression pedal input jack is useless for me to connect an expression pedal to it because nothing I own recognizes CC#8 as expression which is being sent by the MIDI drawbar unit.

So the $64K question is how old are the synthesizers that you are trying to connect to via MIDI? Towards the back of the owners manual MIGHT be the MIDI implementation chart (wouldn't surprise if there wasn't one though). This chart may tell you what specific CC is accepted for Volume. It might also be an incomplete MIDI implementation and volume might not be able to be controlled via MIDI. The Nord Lead 3 is a 21st century product and I would expect it to conform to the 'standard'; older ones maybe not. If there is a MIDI implementation chart and there is a MIDI mapping for volume check to see if that CC is "recognized". As you can see at the below example some are transmitted and some are recognized (received); aftertouch is sent but not received.

1636397842375.png
 
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So the $64K question is how old are the synthesizers that you are trying to connect to via MIDI?

Thanks for the reply Dave! It's not really about what specific synth I'm trying to control, but trying to send the right messages so that my controller is compatible with the most synths. So trying to do "the right thing" MIDI wise.

According to the manual for my Nord Lead 3 manual: "Amplifier Level responds to both Controller 71 and Controller 7. Only Controller 71 is transmitted from the Nord Lead 3". Strange, since CC71 is supposed to be Resonance... I guess I'm just frustrated with thinking that every device capable of having its volume controlled by MIDI would have them all on the same CC, but in reality that is not the case.
 
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Thanks for the reply Dave! It's not really about what specific synth I'm trying to control, but trying to send the right messages so that my controller is compatible with the most synths. So trying to do "the right thing" MIDI wise.

According to the manual for my Nord Lead 3 manual: "Amplifier Level responds to both Controller 71 and Controller 7. Only Controller 71 is transmitted from the Nord Lead 3". Strange, since CC71 is supposed to be Resonance... I guess I'm just frustrated with thinking that every device capable of having its volume controlled by MIDI would have them all on the same CC, but in reality that is not the case.
Your answer above is confusing given the original post. You wrote this in the original post: " .. I was expecting CC 7 (VOLUME - Controls the Volume of a channel) to work, but was pretty disappointed that all synthesizers that I tried at a friends' studio did not respond at all to this at all.." You also wrote this: ".. what CC their synth is expecting as a default control of the volume .."

Your questions about 'response' is a MIDI receive question. My answer to you was it depends on how old the synthesizers were because back in the day not everyone followed today's MIDI protocol because officially there was no standard (there supposedly is now). In your recent response you speak to inconsistencies and speak about the Lead 3, you say " .. Only Controller 71 is transmitted from the Nord Lead 3". Strange, since CC71 is supposed to be Resonance .." What is 'transmitted' is different than what is 'received'. That's why there is a MIDI implementation chart, so that you can understand what CC to send if you are transmitting and what CC is needed to be received. If the Lead sends volume control on CC71 and the receiving unit receives volume control on CC7 then the two can't talk to each other unless there is a device in between that converts CC71 midi messages to CC7 so that the volume control is sent successfully by one unit and received successfully by the receiving unit. This unit does such a translation:


Also in my reply I sighted two examples of equipment that I own that don't follow the MIDI protocol, my Voce V5+ and my Voce MIDI Drawbar Unit. One receives expression on CC7 and the other transmits expression on CC8. Same company, the units being only a few years apart, but don't follow the MIDI protocol and are inconsistent within their own design. So if I plugged and expression pedal into the MIDI Drawbar unit that MIDI transmission would not be successfully received by the Voce V5+ unless I used the above midi solutions box to convert CC8 to CC7. Also recognize that some companies (like hammond) only receive commands on a certain channel. I had a Hammond XM2 module, although I had the unit set to receive on channel 3, all MIDI commands other than the keybed had to be sent on channel 1. So MIDI drawbar manipulation for the upper channel had to be sent on channel 1 even though the XM2 was set to channel 3. This is documented in the midi implementation chart (although it wasn't clear to me with their cryptic writing).

You haven't mentioned yet what synthesizers you are trying to send MIDI data nor what synthesizers you are trying to receive MIDI data nor the age of those synthesizers so all this discussion is therefore hypothetical until the specific equipment models are known and their midi implementation can be studied and compared.
 
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Hi Dave,
So my mistake - I expected the synths to respond to CC11 for volume and the Nord responded to CC7. My confusion is between CC7 and CC11 and how each manufacturer implements things slightly differently regarding which one to listen to.

It seems like my controller is definitely going to need to be configurable, so the volume control can be changed to any CC to make it compatible with as many synths as possible.
 
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Hi Dave,
So my mistake - I expected the synths to respond to CC11 for volume and the Nord responded to CC7. My confusion is between CC7 and CC11 and how each manufacturer implements things slightly differently regarding which one to listen to.

It seems like my controller is definitely going to need to be configurable, so the volume control can be changed to any CC to make it compatible with as many synths as possible.
For synths built in the past 10 years the MIDI implementations are pretty consistent from synth to synth, CC#7 is typically volume and CC#11 is typically expression. As they get older the consistency shrivels and you might find differences. The other thing to consider is what did the manufacturer actually implement; maybe they built the synth to respond to limited midi; so it might have a midi in jack but what it actually responds to might be very limited. Hard to know without knowing the midi implementation which is typically in the user manual.
 

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