Yamaha P115 patchname script in Cubase Elements 9

Discussion in 'MIDI' started by dstlouis, Nov 4, 2017.

  1. dstlouis

    dstlouis

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    I recently picked up a Yamaha P115, and I'm trying to create a patchname script file for it using the old Steinberg Scriptmaker program. On the P115, there is a single row of buttons that can be pressed once for one sound, and pressed a second time form another sound...this is confusing me when I'm trying to enter the number of banks & patches.... I'm not sure what's what. :?

    Has anyone created a script for the P115 or a piano with a similar patch arrangement?

    Thanks
     
    dstlouis, Nov 4, 2017
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  2. dstlouis

    dstlouis

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    Update: The best I've been able to manage while tweaking the script/settings in device manager is to select a voice in Cubase that just ends up as a second voice layered over whatever the currently selected voice on the P115. I think it may have to do with the mono/poly modes (and I've spent hours playing with the settings), but I can't get Cubase to give me a single voice program change.

    Any advice?

    Thanks again
     
    dstlouis, Nov 6, 2017
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  3. dstlouis

    SeaGtGruff I meant to play that note! Moderator

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    It sounds like you want to remotely select voices on the P-115 while playing by sending it MIDI messages from Cubase, rather than using the P-115's panel controls to select voices. Do I understand correctly?
     
    SeaGtGruff, Nov 6, 2017
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  4. dstlouis

    dstlouis

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    Yes, that's correct. I've been able to do this with my old Roland D-10, as it has the more common A11, A12, A13... etc. patch selection buttons.

    Not sure how familiar you are with the P115, but it has a single row of buttons, and above each button are two voices - if you press a button once, it selects the first vice; press the same button again, it selects second one. Now if you hold one of the voice buttons down and press another button, it layers both voices together.

    When I try to select a voice in Cubase, I get whatever voice was already selected on the P115, plus the voice selected in Cubase layered with it...in much the same way as would occur if I held one button on the P115 and selected the second voice as I described above.

    So it would appear that either a) Cubase is only adding the "second" voice to the first, as if I was already pressing a button for the first voice, or b) My Cubase script is sending data that applies to "dual" mode, and I need to somehow configure my script to ensure it selects only one voice.

    Any help you can offer is greatly appreciated!
     
    dstlouis, Nov 6, 2017
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  5. dstlouis

    SeaGtGruff I meant to play that note! Moderator

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    I don't think it's anything to do with the buttons you use to select the voices.

    The issue is that the "keyboard parts" are separate from the "MIDI channels." A multi-timbral keyboard usually has a number of "parts" that it lets you play sounds with-- e.g., it may have a right-hand part and a left-hand part for splitting the keyboard and playing with two different sounds, it may have two parts that can be played as two sounds layered together, etc. On some Yamaha keyboards these parts are called "Main" or "Right 1," "Dual" or "Right 2," and "Split" or "Left." It looks like they're called "Voice 1" and "Voice 2" on the P-115. An arranger keyboard will usually have a number of "style parts" as well-- typically 8 of them-- for playing the tracks of a style, and 16 "song parts" for recording or playing back a MIDI song file that uses 16 channels.

    Some keyboards-- e.g., the PSR-S and Tyros models-- have functions which let you assign one or more MIDI IN channels to one or more keyboard parts, so incoming MIDI messages will affect the specified part. But other keyboards don't have functions for that-- e.g., my PSR-E/YPT models don't, nor does the P-115. On page 2 of the P-115's MIDI Reference there's a note that says: "Program change and other like channel messages received will not affect the panel settings of the instrument or the notes you play on the keyboard."

    Fortunately, there's still a way to achieve what you want to do, but it requires a sort of workaround:

    (1) Turn off the keyboard's LOCAL CONTROL setting, so playing on the keyboard produces no sound.

    (2) If necessary, set the keyboard's MIDI TRANSMIT CHANNEL to channel 1, or whichever channel you prefer. (Some keyboards-- e.g., the PSR-E/YPT models-- don't have functions for setting the MIDI OUT channels of the various keyboard parts; instead, each keyboard part is transmitted over a specific channel ("hard-coded" to that channel, so to speak) and can't be reassigned to a different channel. But it looks like you can select the MIDI TRANSMIT CHANNEL on the P-115.)

    (3) If necessary, set the keyboard's MIDI RECEIVE CHANNEL to "All," so it will receive and respond to MIDI data coming in on all channels. That doesn't mean you need to use all of the channels, but you could. (Some keyboards-- e.g., the PSR-E/YPT models-- automatically receive all 16 channels, and there are no functions for changing that behavior. But the P-115 has a MIDI RECEIVE CHANNEL function that can be set to "All.")

    (4) In your DAW, set up one or more MIDI tracks to receive the MIDI channel(s) being sent by your keyboard.

    (5) On the MIDI track(s), set the MIDI OUT to send the data back to the keyboard. The MIDI messages that the keyboard sends to the DAW will be sent back to the keyboard; basically, you're using the keyboard as though it were a MIDI controller to play the keyboard's internal sound engine as though it were an external sound module. MIDI messages inserted into the DAW's outgoing MIDI data-- e.g., Bank Select, Program Change, Control Change, etc.-- will be received by the keyboard and will have the desired effect (if that type of message is recognized by the keyboard).

    (6) You will have as many MIDI channels to use as your keyboard allows-- i.e., on the P-115 you could use all 16 channels. You could set up 16 different MIDI tracks, each receiving the same incoming MIDI channel from your P-115, and each sending the data back on a different channel, essentially giving you 16 "zones" to work with. By specifying different Bank Select and Program Change values for each track, you can use a different voice with every zone (track). You would turn each zone on or off by arming or disarming its track.

    (7) If you wished, you could add "MIDI effects" to each MIDI track, letting you filter incoming MIDI messages based on message type, Note range, Velocity, etc.; the available options will depend on your DAW's MIDI effects feature. You can usually also apply transposition to the received Note values. This lets you define a Note range for each zone, based on which Note values that particular track is set to allow through. Thus, you can use the 16 zones to create splits and layers far beyond what the P-115 allows via its panel controls.

    I don't know how MIDI and DAW savvy you are, so if the preceding information isn't detailed enough for you to set things up by yourself, let me know a specific set up that you'd like to try out and I'll post screenshots from my Cubase Elements showing how I'd do it with my PSR-E/YPT keybaords.
     
    SeaGtGruff, Nov 6, 2017
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  6. dstlouis

    dstlouis

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    Wow! Thanks for the very detailed advice! I hope to give this a try asap... I'll let you know how it goes.

    Dave
     
    dstlouis, Nov 6, 2017
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  7. dstlouis

    dstlouis

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    Ok, so turning off Local Control has helped with some of my issues. I no longer have the dual voice issue (yay!), and I can now play with various combinations of sounds from the P115, Roland D-10 and VSTs in Cubase. So thanks for that! :)

    Remaining Issue:
    I've managed to manually configure the settings in Cubase device manager so I can select most of the P115's voices. However, I'm having trouble getting the "Bright Piano" voice to work (all I get is the "Grand Piano" voice when I select Bright Piano from Cubase). I've tried everything I could think of, including a lot of playing around in Device Manager...various midi commands, putting it in its own subfolder, etc....but no luck. Starting to drive me a bit batty o_O

    Screencap from Cubase - an example of settings I've tried:

    device manager sceen.jpg


    From the P115 Midi doc:

    midi.jpg

    Any thoughts on what I'm doing wrong?
     
    dstlouis, Nov 7, 2017
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  8. dstlouis

    dstlouis

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    I figured it out! Oddly enough, I tried setting the LSB to 122 (instead of 112 as noted in the manual), and program change to 1.... seems a little random, but it worked.... thanks again for the earlier help!
     
    dstlouis, Nov 8, 2017
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  9. dstlouis

    SeaGtGruff I meant to play that note! Moderator

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    EDIT-- Never mind, I hadn't looked at your screenshot from Cubase, which shows that Cubase does use PC 0-127 and you were already entering PC 0. But I'm leaving my message as written (below) as advice for other readers.

    A word of warning about the values in that list-- in recent years, Yamaha has been using Bank Select values of 0-127 and Program Change values of 1-128 in their voice lists (but in manuals for older models they used Program Change values of 0-127). Depending on your DAW, you might need to adjust the listed values by plus or minus 1 when entering them into the DAW. For instance, Ableton Live uses values of 1-128 for both Bank Select and Program Change, so when entering Yamaha's listed values into Live you must add 1 to the Bank Select MSB and Bank Select LSB. Many other DAWs use values of 0-127 for both Bank Select and Program Change, so when entering Yamaha's listed values into those DAWs you must subtract 1 from the Program Change. Some DAWs may let you specify an option setting that indicates whether you want to enter values as 0-127 or 1-128. I don't remember off the top of my head what Cubase does, but I suspect that you should actually be subtracting 1 from those Program Change values. Try LSB 112 as listed, but with PC 0 rather than PC 1, and see what you get.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2017
    SeaGtGruff, Nov 8, 2017
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  10. dstlouis

    SeaGtGruff I meant to play that note! Moderator

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    One other piece of advice. When you select a voice using the panel controls, the keyboard should be outputting MIDI messages associated with that voice (Bank Select MSB and LSB, Program Change, and possibly other Control Change or even SysEx messages). Most DAWs include a MIDI monitor function that lets you monitor the MIDI messages coming into the DAW, so you could try that to see what LSB and PC values are received when you select the Bright Piano voice using the panel controls.
     
    SeaGtGruff, Nov 8, 2017
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  11. dstlouis

    dstlouis

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    I don't want to mess with what's working, lol, but I used MIDI-OX to see what was sent when toggling between Grand Piano and Bright Piano... best I can tell with my limited knowledge of MIDI is that Bright Piano is indeed a "2". This makes it a bit of an oddball, as the rest of the voices I entered in Cubase worked fine at one number lower than the channels listed in the reference manual (as was noted correctly in the manual).

    Maybe I'll poke around more when I'm feeling brave.... just happy to have it all working as intended.

    Thanks again for the help!
     
    dstlouis, Nov 8, 2017
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