2 keyboards - using DIs/mixers

[Briggy]

OK, so I now have 2 keyboards - go me I did previously, but one was a MIDI controller linked to my mains keyboard.

Just some advice would be great. I have been using a passive DI box with my live set up, mainly to protect from accidental phantom power usage but also for all the other benefits it brings.

My questions comes in two parts really. As I now have 2 independent keyboards, both with stereo outputs means I will require 4 channels on the desk. The first part is, would you recommend using 4 channels on the main FOH desk where possible to give the sound person more flexibility in mixing? I am considering running them through my small 6 channel desk, panning the relevant channels and sending stereo outs to the main desk with a mix of both keys. This also allows me to accept a monitor feed into my 6 channel desk and use the Aux out for my in ears (and direct control over keys volume level in my in ears). I am seeing pros and cons to both - what are your thoughts?

This leads to the DI question. If running the latter option, would you use x2 DIs, one for each keyboard. So connect Keys to stereo DI, DI to my 6 channel desk then desk to FOH. Or would you run one DI for both, so Keys to 6 channel desk, desk out to stereo DI, DI to FOH - so requiring only 1 DI.

The only downside here is my 6 channel desk has phantom power so I would have no protection from that in the latter option if I was to accidently knock the button. Maybe I'm answering my own question but feel I could be missing something.

I hope that all makes sense.

Thanks all

 

[CowboyNQ]

I would go:

Keys into personal mixer.

Personal Mixer L and R into one stereo DI or two mono DI’s.

L and R from DI to FOH.

FOH pans L left and R right.

Job done.

 

[Briggy]

Thanks for the response. If running in that way, would I not need to pan individual channels so the panning correlates to L R from each keyboard?

I was concerned that running this way would send FOH a stereo mix - not one that reflects the L R out of the keyboards but one that reflects L R out of the desk.

Does that make sense?

 

[delaware dave]

Thanks for the response. If running in that way, would I not need to pan individual channels so the panning correlates to L R from each keyboard?

I was concerned that running this way would send FOH a stereo mix - not one that reflects the L R out of the keyboards but one that reflects L R out of the desk.

Does that make sense?

If you are trying to send the FOH a stereo signal then you need to pan your 2 keyboards hard left and hard right on your mixer, ch1 = kb1 panned L, ch2 = kb1 panned R. Do the same thing for ch3&4 for kb2. The stereo DI (or two mono Di's) plugged into the mixer's outputs will now pick up a true stereo signal out from the mixers outputs and carry that to the FOH. Done. Not sure about your personal mixer but on my mixer the aux out can be mono or stereo. My aux outs have a left and a right output. If i only plug into the left side of the aux out the aux out signal carried will be mono, if i plug into the left and right aux outs then the aux out signal will be stereo. The question would be when only plugged into the left aux out, how well does the mixer do with combining the signal from stereo to mono going out the aux. My guess is that there is probably some phase cancellation going on. But since the potential phase cancellation would only be in my personal monitor and not to the FOH which i know is true stereo I can live with that. If I'm monitoring myself in stereo then the two aux outs will carry independent L & R signals just like the FOH.

 

[Briggy]

I hear you!

I have LR outs on my mixer so that won't be an issue. The AUX will be for my in ears so I can cope with whatever I get there

What are your thoughts on Phantom Power protection? Maybe I just rip off the button on my desk to eliminate the risk of accidentally pressing.

 

[Briggy]

I would go:

Keys into personal mixer.

Personal Mixer L and R into one stereo DI or two mono DI’s.

L and R from DI to FOH.

FOH pans L left and R right.

Job done.

As above, would you be concerned about lac k of protection from accidental phantom power selection from the personal mixer?

 

[delaware dave]

As above, would you be concerned about lac k of protection from accidental phantom power selection from the personal mixer?

When you connect your keyboards to the mixer are the connections XLR or 1/4". If they are 1/4" the phantom power does not come into play, phantom power comes into play with XLR. I connect my keyboards with 1/4" TRS cables (balanced) which are equivalent to XLR but because they are 1/4" phantom power does not come into play. You could always tape down the switch rather than ripping it out (LOL).

 

[kmkkeys]

I do exactly what Briggy said in this thread. The simpler, all the better…

 

[802flier]

I run my boards through a Behringer Xair12. I set the outputs of all the boards, pan each board hard L and R and send both signals to FOH. FOH can do with it as they please - stereo or mono. Our FOH is typically a Behringer X32 and I take a stereo signal back, which is set up so I have my own dedicated monitor thru sendsonfaders. I can keep that portion of the X32 on my ipad and adjust my own monitor mix on the fly without affecting any other part of the system. The stereo aux signal I get back goes into my stereo headphone amp and in-ears. I absolutely love this system. I don’t have to worry about a wireless in-ear amp because I’m anchored to the keyboard rig anyway. I only hope FOH sounds half as good as my world does.
As an added simplification - I use a 6 ch snake with 2 returns built in - don’t have to mess around with DI’s and multiple cords. Apart from the 2 keyboard channels I’m sending, I also send a vocal channel directly. (Ok, I admit, I could get by with a 3 channel snake, but I already had the 8 ch cabling, so in a pinch I can lend a couple of XLRs to someone else.)

One thing- if you’re planning on operating a Behringer x series, you may find that using the onboard router has unacceptable latency. This is easily remedied by using your own dedicated wifi router on stage. They’re cheap and reliable.

 

[kmkkeys]

I run my boards through a Behringer Xair12. I set the outputs of all the boards, pan each board hard L and R and send both signals to FOH. FOH can do with it as they please - stereo or mono. Our FOH is typically a Behringer X32 and I take a stereo signal back, which is set up so I have my own dedicated monitor thru sendsonfaders. I can keep that portion of the X32 on my ipad and adjust my own monitor mix on the fly without affecting any other part of the system. The stereo aux signal I get back goes into my stereo headphone amp and in-ears. I absolutely love this system. I don’t have to worry about a wireless in-ear amp because I’m anchored to the keyboard rig anyway. I only hope FOH sounds half as good as my world does.

What headphone amp do you use or recommend? I’m over the wireless in-ears. I have and use them, I am also anchor to my rig.
Thanks

 

[802flier]

I just use a little Behringer P1. I hardwire a 9V power supply to it too, so no batteries to go dead (although it will run on a 9V). It was less than $100 CDN. You can run it stereo or mono and adjust volume and L/R. It has a metal casing, so very durable. I just realized that I seem to be endorsing Behringer. Not intentional. This stuff just happens to be working for me, flawlessly.

 

[Eli_Kyiv]

Does one of your keyboards have a stereo input for external sound source? If so, problem solved.