Analyzing background keyboards

[Sargas]

Hello!

So I recently discovered this guy called Devin Townsend, and just completely fell in love with the sound of some of his songs. I've always been a big fan of the "super big" sound of some modern rock-ish songs, so this is really just the newest discovery

Anyway, to the point. I know a part of this "big sound" thing is having a ton of stuff in the background to beef things up, which is where I assume the Keyboards come in play. I've tried a few times to mimic this effect, but always end up with strings/pads playing chords, and maybe a synth-lead arpeggio or so, which hasn't been very satisfying to be honest...

So, I figured I'd throw in an example here from a Devin Townsend tune, and let's try figure out what's going on beneath the surface

The points of interest is the main riff starting at 0:23 and the chorus starting at 1:23 (same riff):

 

[soot29]

The way this is mixed makes it really hard to determine what is playing. The keys and guitars seem very compressed together. Offhand it sounds like some kind of thick synth lines based on a saw wave layered with mellotron string samples. That's my guess.

 

[Rayblewit]

I think it is a dual sound of keyboard synth and guitar. Both are played with a "full on sustain"
This gives it an overpowering sound.

 

[johnny196775]

Added distortion like a distortion pedal maybe. Just a guess.

 

[OldDude]

Definitely some distortion. It sounds more dirty (distorted) than fat (full, thick, multi-layered). If you like really fat sounding keys, try listening to David Arkenstone ( a new age guy). He puts out some very full sounds. Many of the prog rock players also emphasize fullness above other factors. The heavy compression in this one and the distortion pretty well make it impossible for you to determine the individual sounds involved.

 

[Ted Nicoson]

Hmmmm! I just did a Google search on "getting the Devin Townsend sound", and look what I came up with. This might just save you a whole lot of time and effort:

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/new...t_the_heaviest_guitar_sound_in_the_world.html

 

[Sargas]

Interesting how you all mention distortion, but I can't really hear it apart from the guitars :O
Here's a few things that I hear that hasn't been mentioned yet:

• A wide sweeping sound way in the back of the mix
• Voices
• Another guitar mimicking the riff in a very high register

Many of the prog rock players also emphasize fullness above other factors.

This definitely sounds like something I'd be interesting in knowing more about. Could you give me any examples to point me in the right direction?

Hmmmm! I just did a Google search on "getting the Devin Townsend sound", and look what I came up with. This might just save you a whole lot of time and effort:
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/new...t_the_heaviest_guitar_sound_in_the_world.html

That's cool! Interesting read, sure gave me some valuable information

 

[CowboyNQ]

The points of interest is the main riff starting at 0:23 and the chorus starting at 1:23 (same riff):

Heavily distorted guitar, there's at least one playing the chords and another one playing some higher-pitched notes, there's possibly as many as three guitars operating here though to create that harmonic effect. Behind this is one of those standard synth pad sounds that a lot of the modern prog/metal bands use. There's also some backing vocals low in the mix. I couldn't say exactly what effects are in play there but compression, chorus, EQ seem likely.

 

[OldDude]

There are so many . . . Pink Floyd, King Crimson, ELO, Emerson Lake & Palmer, Moody Blues, Dream Theater . . .Google Prog Rock Bands and sample a bit . . .

 

[Eric Barker]

Been a huge Devy fan since I first heard Ocean Machine about 17 years ago. Been one of the biggest inspirations on my own music, and more specifically my production. First off, a lot of Devin's sound is accomplished by his layered arrangement in combination with a lot of very specific delay timings. He's basically an evolution of Phil Spector's old wall of sound formulas. The keyboards play a roll, but not as much as you'd think... he does a lot of guitar and vocal pads using timing effects to build a lot of what you would normally think of as a keyboards. Recently he's even started using orchestras and choirs to build on this wall of sound as well.

My very favorite technique that BLOWS MY MIND is he'll use bass trombones to extend the aggressive attack of metal guitar punches. Listen to "Heaven's End (Heaven Send?)" off "Ki", once you hear it, it'll probably be a combination of "Why didn't I think of that before?" and "Why is no one else doing this?" It's brilliant.

In short, Devin is a genius and one of the foremost producer/arrangers of our time. His style isn't for everyone, but it's definitely for me.

 

[Sargas]

First off, a lot of Devin's sound is accomplished by his layered arrangement in combination with a lot of very specific delay timings. He's basically an evolution of Phil Spector's old wall of sound formulas. The keyboards play a roll, but not as much as you'd think... he does a lot of guitar and vocal pads using timing effects to build a lot of what you would normally think of as a keyboards.

That's very interesting! I'm getting some real valuable information here, think I'm gonna make an attempt to reproduce the aforementioned riff with all these tips and techniques I'll post my result here!

 

[Eric Barker]

BTW: Amazing song on an amazing album. He and Annake's voices blend SUPERBLY. This was the first album he worked with her on, and he's guested her on the majority of albums since... especially Epicloud and Sky Blue (both amazing). He works with some other female vocalists on Ki (holy shit), Ziltoid 2, and Casualties of Cool. She's present on Transcendence, but less so. There's also a recording of her performing "Life" with him, live, which is GLORIOUS!

Seriously, one of the greatest vocal duos of our time.

 

[Fred Coulter]

He works with some other female vocalists

I've always liked bands fronted with female vocalists, all other things being equal. No, it's not because of the eye candy. Nor is it because when I was working professionally, my wife was the vocalist.

If you look at the normal frequency ranges of instruments in a typical rock band, male vocals are fighting with the guitar, while female vocals are in their own space, above the guitar. (Keyboards screw up this analysis since the range of modern keyboards encompass the entire audible range. This means that keyboardists need to be aware of what else is going on to a greater extent than other musicians.)

 

[Eric Barker]

Right, that's why high tenor male voices are so common in rock music. Though if you look at many of the top women, they're only a few notes higher than the men, more commonly altos or lower mezzos than high sopranos. The aforementioned Anneke van Giersbergen doesn't sick much higher than most men, in fact I suspect Devin sings higher than her on average. For instance, Devin's vocal version of "Hyperdrive" is a step down, and he sounds super low in his range, where-as her version is only a step higher, and it sounds like it's sitting at the mid-upper part of her range.

Was listening to Heart the other day, and was reminded that I'd take Ann Wilson or Grace Slick over ALMOST any male rock vocalist, but I can't decide whether it's because they are women, or they are just THAT GOOD.

All this said, I often get tired of the extremely high, super youthful male voices that come out of the late 90s-00s. Sure, they don't compete with the guitar as much, but they just sound weak and characterless. Sometimes it's refreshing to hear baritone rock voice. I guess a lot of it comes down to aesthetics.

 

[Fred Coulter]

Sometimes it's refreshing to hear baritone rock voice.

Greg Lake's voice, especially as he got older, got deeper and richer. Interestingly, he worked with a band with non-traditional instrumentation. So he wasn't fighting with the guitar, and it worked really well.

 

[Eric Barker]

Greg Lake's voice, especially as he got older, got deeper and richer. Interestingly, he worked with a band with non-traditional instrumentation. So he wasn't fighting with the guitar, and it worked really well.

Totally heresy, I know, but I've actually never been a huge fan of Greg Lake's voice or ELP in general. People are shocked, me being a keyboardist and a huge prog head... but aside from a few things, never did much for me. That said, I really haven't heard him much past 1976, so I can't comment about his voice when he got a bit older, but he does strike me as a voice that would have gotten more interesting with age. Hearing John Wetton (RIP) doing stuff off Court of the Crimson King is heavenly.

That said, I feel that MANY male vocalists get better with age. No, they don't retain their super high range, but their character gets a lot fuller in their middle years. Geddy certainly got richer and fuller later on. IMO, Robert Plant has never sounded better, too. I'm kinda weird, though, in that I often find myself liking bands the best after they've passed their "golden years".

 

[Alchemy]

I've always liked bands fronted with female vocalists, all other things being equal. No, it's not because of the eye candy. Nor is it because when I was working professionally, my wife was the vocalist.

If you look at the normal frequency ranges of instruments in a typical rock band, male vocals are fighting with the guitar, while female vocals are in their own space, above the guitar. (Keyboards screw up this analysis since the range of modern keyboards encompass the entire audible range. This means that keyboardists need to be aware of what else is going on to a greater extent than other musicians.)

To me there's nothing like clear straight plain strong female vocals, from Ann Wilson of heart to Sheila Walsh (contemporary Christian) and many little known Celtic singers. I seem to imagine such vocals to many of my originals ideas and I'd like to find such a lady to sing my music.
I did like what I heard here for what little bit it was for the first time.