DGX-660 vs DGX-670

[Chele]

I just received my DGX-670 to replace my 660, and I'm very disappointed in the piano sound. I think the 660 sounded much better. Was curious about others that have both and could compare. The 670 piano sound is much brighter, but much thinner, almost like they nailed tacks to the hammers (exaggeration, but you get the idea). The 660 was much fuller sounding for lack of a better word. Not sure if I'll take it back or not.

Notes:
The 670 WILL fit on the 660 stand. The mounting screw holes line up the same.
The 660 multi pedal WILL fit the 670 connection. However, it WILL NOT work. It has the same connector, but they've obviously changed the pins around so you can't use your old one and force you to spend another $100. So greedy.

Pros:
The other sounds, however, are much better. I wish they had used more sample memory for the piano at the expense of the other sounds. Having other good sounds are nice, but not if it is at the expense of the piano sound.
The new accompaniment is much better. There are several variations per style and you can turn off all the other stuff except the bass and drums if you want. On the 660 it's either everything or just the drums (someone correct me if I'm wrong). It's nice being able to add the base along with the drums.

I'll have some more comments as I play with it more. Was just curious if anyone else has upgraded from their 660 and what their impressions were.

 

[Biggles]

Welcome to the forum.

The 670 according to the marketing blurb is a ground up redesign and not an incremental update.

Surprising comment on the piano sound, I am no Yamaha fan boy but usually their piano sounds are right up there.

Is the thinner sound you hear specific to one piano or applicable to them all?

 

[anotherscott]

I just received my DGX-670 to replace my 660, and I'm very disappointed in the piano sound. I think the 660 sounded much better. Was curious about others that have both and could compare. The 670 piano sound is much brighter, but much thinner, almost like they nailed tacks to the hammers (exaggeration, but you get the idea). The 660 was much fuller sounding for lack of a better word.

The main piano sound is indeed based on a different piano sample. (The DGX-660 used a sample of a Yamaha CFIIIS 9' grand, the DGX-670 uses a sample of a Yamaha CFX 9' grand.) Have you checked the alternate pianos (pop grand, studio grand, etc.) to see if they might be more to your liking?

The 660 multi pedal WILL fit the 670 connection. However, it WILL NOT work. It has the same connector, but they've obviously changed the pins around so you can't use your old one and force you to spend another $100. So greedy.

I doubt the reason is to get upgraders to spend more money. They have changed to the same pedal they use on the P-121, P-125, and P-515.

 

[Chele]

Welcome to the forum.

The 670 according to the marketing blurb is a ground up redesign and not an incremental update.

Surprising comment on the piano sound, I am no Yamaha fan boy but usually their piano sounds are right up there.

Is the thinner sound you hear specific to one piano or applicable to them all?

Regardless of whether it is a complete redesign or update, one has, I think, a reasonable expectation that a keyboard in the same family with a higher model number and more recent release date would be a "better" keyboard. In most aspects, the 670 is indeed much better. I was just expecting an improved or "better" piano sound, not just a different one (that I don't think is as good).

Yes, I was referring to the main CFX piano sound. I was curious what others that have owned both thought.

 

[Chele]

The main piano sound is indeed based on a different piano sample. (The DGX-660 used a sample of a Yamaha CFIIIS 9' grand, the DGX-670 uses a sample of a Yamaha CFX 9' grand.) Have you checked the alternate pianos (pop grand, studio grand, etc.) to see if they might be more to your liking?

On most of these type of keyboards, there is the "main", flagship sound (in this case the CFX) and then variations of that like the pop, rock, etc. The alternate sounds are never as good as the main sound in my opinion, and so is the case for the 670 as well. The alternate sounds, pop grand, bright grand, rock grand, etc are not as good as the main sound and are even brighter. I'm not sure if the alternate sounds are not just the main sound run thru various types of EQ. But yes, I was referring the piano sounds as a whole.

As I said, I was very disappointed. I knew the sounds were based on a different piano, but I don't think they did as good a job capturing them. The high and low notes of piano samples always sound good, but it is the middle range to me where a digital piano sounds "real" or not, and I don't think the 670 sounds as "real" as the 660. I was interested in the opinion of others that have both and also to possibly help someone who is shopping for pianos. If they don't need all the other improvements of the 670 and all they were looking for is a good piano sound with a built-in mic, I think they would be very happy with the 660 and might could save some money on a used one. If one was trying to decide to upgrade from 660 to 670 mainly to get a better piano sound, I think they will be disappointed. I had thought about getting a P515 instead, but now I'm wondering if they did a better job on the 515 capturing the CFX samples or if it would sound the same as the 670 with just a better keyboard (and yes also has Bosendorfer sounds)

I doubt the reason is to get upgraders to spend more money. They have changed to the same pedal they use on the P-121, P-125, and P-515.

Well, whatever the reason, to have two pedals that have the same connectors and functions but just different wiring is ridiculous in my opinion. I would understand if they wanted to make different version of the pedals that would look different but had the same connectivity, say a plastic one that was cheaper and a metal, fancier one that looked nicer. But to have two different pedals that aren't compatible with each other that use the same connector, doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[anotherscott]

I was just expecting an improved or "better" piano sound, not just a different one (that I don't think is as good).

I think the new CFX sample is probably "technically" better.

AFAIK, Yamaha has been using the same CFIIIS samples since 2006, but it's still nice sounding and popular. In fact, the new CP88/CP73 didn't originally come with it, but it was added in an update, where their announcement said, "New to OS v1.4, the classic CF3 sound from the Yamaha CP300." Even the CP300 itself is still in production, 15 years later.

The CFX grand itself is a newer and more premium acoustic grand than the CFIIIS, and their CFX sampling is similarly newer and presumably larger, more detailed. It's in all their flagship portables... i.e. the P-515 as you said, as well as the Montage, Tyros, and the aforementioned CP88/CP73. But you also make a good point that it's possible that the DGX670 version is not necessarily identical to the version in the higher end boards, they could have reduced the sample set size. Ultimately, though, so much of this is subjective. It would indeed be interesting to know whethere there is any kind of consesnsus about what people think about the 660 vs 670 piano sound.

As for the pedals, who knows why they changed it. But as inconvenient as it was for you as a DGX660 owner, it could also be convenient for someone upgrading from a P125!

 

[Manfred1]

I just received my DGX-670 to replace my 660, and I'm very disappointed in the piano sound. I think the 660 sounded much better. Was curious about others that have both and could compare. The 670 piano sound is much brighter, but much thinner, almost like they nailed tacks to the hammers (exaggeration, but you get the idea). The 660 was much fuller sounding for lack of a better word. Not sure if I'll take it back or not.

Notes:
The 670 WILL fit on the 660 stand. The mounting screw holes line up the same.
The 660 multi pedal WILL fit the 670 connection. However, it WILL NOT work. It has the same connector, but they've obviously changed the pins around so you can't use your old one and force you to spend another $100. So greedy.

Pros:
The other sounds, however, are much better. I wish they had used more sample memory for the piano at the expense of the other sounds. Having other good sounds are nice, but not if it is at the expense of the piano sound.
The new accompaniment is much better. There are several variations per style and you can turn off all the other stuff except the bass and drums if you want. On the 660 it's either everything or just the drums (someone correct me if I'm wrong). It's nice being able to add the base along with the drums.

I'll have some more comments as I play with it more. Was just curious if anyone else has upgraded from their 660 and what their impressions were.

Have you checked out the Legacy sounds from previous DGX keyboards included in the 670? You might find your previous sounds that you like there. I have another post that describes how to access the Legacy sounds, since it is not real obvious from the manual.

 

[Chele]

Have you checked out the Legacy sounds from previous DGX keyboards included in the 670? You might find your previous sounds that you like there. I have another post that describes how to access the Legacy sounds, since it is not real obvious from the manual.

Here are all the piano sounds in the 670: There are not any CF3 sounds.

 

[Chele]

UPDATE:
After playing with the unit for a few days I found that there is a Master EQ section for the whole keyboard. The factory defaults have a big boost at 7k and another big boost on the low end. That was another gripe I had was that the low end was overpowering. There was also Chorus on every sound by default. I removed the chorus, set all the eq to flat and the sound is MUCH better. So for anyone that has gotten a new unit, the master eq section is the first place to visit and set everything to flat. Then you will be able to hear the actual unaltered sounds.

It would still be interesting to be able to find out how big a piano sample set they use on different machines. My guess is the 670 has a reduced cfx sample set size to make room for all the other sounds they added without increasing the cost too much, but that would be an interesting statistic to know.

 

[Manfred1]

On most of these type of keyboards, there is the "main", flagship sound (in this case the CFX) and then variations of that like the pop, rock, etc. The alternate sounds are never as good as the main sound in my opinion, and so is the case for the 670 as well. The alternate sounds, pop grand, bright grand, rock grand, etc are not as good as the main sound and are even brighter. I'm not sure if the alternate sounds are not just the main sound run thru various types of EQ. But yes, I was referring the piano sounds as a whole.

As I said, I was very disappointed. I knew the sounds were based on a different piano, but I don't think they did as good a job capturing them. The high and low notes of piano samples always sound good, but it is the middle range to me where a digital piano sounds "real" or not, and I don't think the 670 sounds as "real" as the 660. I was interested in the opinion of others that have both and also to possibly help someone who is shopping for pianos. If they don't need all the other improvements of the 670 and all they were looking for is a good piano sound with a built-in mic, I think they would be very happy with the 660 and might could save some money on a used one. If one was trying to decide to upgrade from 660 to 670 mainly to get a better piano sound, I think they will be disappointed. I had thought about getting a P515 instead, but now I'm wondering if they did a better job on the 515 capturing the CFX samples or if it would sound the same as the 670 with just a better keyboard (and yes also has Bosendorfer sounds)


Well, whatever the reason, to have two pedals that have the same connectors and functions but just different wiring is ridiculous in my opinion. I would understand if they wanted to make different version of the pedals that would look different but had the same connectivity, say a plastic one that was cheaper and a metal, fancier one that looked nicer. But to have two different pedals that aren't compatible with each other that use the same connector, doesn't make any sense to me.

I have both the 670 and an older model 650, so I cannot comment on the 660 sound. However, listening to them both side by side, I can honestly say that there are some sounds I like better on the 650. That being said, I think that the CFX on the 670 is a very good sample. I do notice that the Grand Piano sound in the 660 has a little more presence. My conclusion is that it is a matter of the way that the DSP is applied. The Live! version adds a lot of presence (stereo depth) to the sound on the 650, whereas the VRM version on the 670 definitely adds more resonance. So I believe that the sound on the 670 can be tweeked a bit. Another sound that is very different is one of my favorite string sounds, Live! Allegro on the 650, which sounds better than the 670, but I found with a little tweeking, I can pretty much reproduce it on the 670. I know, you shouldn't have to do that, but for all the additional features on the 670, it is worth it to me. A lot of great sounds added as well.

 

[Manfred1]

I have a general question for anyone who has a DGX-670. I can access all of the front panel sounds, as well as the Legacy sounds (using the "File Up" icon, but I see no way to directly access the GM and XG sounds. I talked to Yamaha customer support, and they said that the General Midi and XG sounds are included within all of the other sounds, but that is not really true. For example, all of the sound effects are not included that I can see. Any ideas?

 

[happyrat1]

What happens if you try to play a SMF file directly from your computer thru the Yamaha?

 

[anotherscott]

Here are all the piano sounds in the 670:

You're missing some. Go further into the data list you created those screen shots from, and in the Legacy category, you'll find 7 or 8 more which are from older DGX models (possibly the 660). There are also still more piano sounds in the GM/XG and GM2 categories but, picking up from Manfred's post, I'm not sure there's a way to play those sounds directly from the keyboard. Bringing me to this...

I have a general question for anyone who has a DGX-670. I can access all of the front panel sounds, as well as the Legacy sounds (using the "File Up" icon, but I see no way to directly access the GM and XG sounds. I talked to Yamaha customer support, and they said that the General Midi and XG sounds are included within all of the other sounds, but that is not really true. For example, all of the sound effects are not included that I can see. Any ideas?

Possibly by sending the appropriate MIDI change to the DGX from another attached device? For example, the GM "Thunder" sound is MSB 64, LSB 0, PC 34. If you sent that (from a computer, tablet, smartphone, or another keyboard) to channel 1 (the default main keyboard-playable channel), maybe that would give you that sound. Thunder also appears as the sound associated with the A4 key in the drum kit "SFX Kit1", maybe there's a way to make use of it that way?

 

[Manfred1]

You're missing some. Go further into the data list you created those screen shots from, and in the Legacy category, you'll find 7 or 8 more which are from older DGX models (possibly the 660). There are also still more piano sounds in the GM/XG and GM2 categories but, picking up from Manfred's post, I'm not sure there's a way to play those sounds directly from the keyboard. Bringing me to this...


Possibly by sending the appropriate MIDI change to the DGX from another attached device? For example, the GM "Thunder" sound is MSB 64, LSB 0, PC 34. If you sent that (from a computer, tablet, smartphone, or another keyboard) to channel 1 (the default main keyboard-playable channel), maybe that would give you that sound. Thunder also appears as the sound associated with the A4 key in the drum kit "SFX Kit1", maybe there's a way to make use of it that way?

Thanks for the reply...I hope that is not the only way to access the GM sounds, but at least that could be a work around. On my old DGX-650, the jog wheel could be used to access all sounds and sound effects (including all GM sounds). Seems strange that they would not make them directly available on the 670

 

[Chele]

Doesn't remember settings on power off:

The 660 had the annoying property that once you powered off it would forget and reset any settings you had open. I had hoped the 670 would have changed that, so that when you powered back on it would take you right back to where you were. But it doesn't look like they've changed that. For instance, the master EQ that I have set to flat, and the patch and volume of the layer sound, when you power back on, it resets the eq, patches, and volumes to factory defaults. I know I can save settings to a user setting, but would be nice if it didn't "reset" itself every time you powered back up. That seems like that would have been a simple thing to do unless there is a "power on" setting somewhere that I don't know about that will let you choose between factory defaults and last used settings when you power on. Some things it remembers, like the Mic settings, but everything on the Main screen and Mixer settings, it reverts to factory defaults on boot up. Is there a setting to change that?

 

[gwc uk]

DGX670 EQ Settings can be saved in Parameter lock.

You can also save your prefered startup setting in a Registration which you would press after a power up.