How to imitate a pro???

[JimDavis]

Imagine a guy like myself...At age 65 , not a keyboard player for all his life other than tickling the ivories now and then for fun with his 5-6 chord knowledge. No right and left hand coordination at all. Single handed player like a 2 finger typist.
I mentioned here in the past that I'd like to sit at home and make music suitable to be jingles for a commercial or TV series, Soft new age type music that I'd like to listen while getting massage, Enya type of music, some rhythmic electronic music, Jean Michel Jarre-like tunes, Depeche mode, Pet Shop Boys ( Damn, my age showing I think )...
Anyways, you got the idea...

Now, my question is why should I even consider to buy a Juno X and/or a Fantom and/or a Korg monologue etc...

I am asking this, because I see on many Youtube videos a lot of people making the same type of music having stacks of keyboards of all sizes layered up for creating and recording their music...

BUT; also I see a lot of people who are doing the same thing in their home, in front of a computer with an 41or 61key Arturia kind of keyboard and 2 studio monitor while using either Logic Pro or Ableton type of software...

Now if I go with layered of keyboards I'll be spending a lot of $$$$$$$$ or I can go with the Arturia + Software route and only spend $$ instead of $$$$$...

So my question is why any composer or song writer go to layered lots of keyboard route? Is it because they play on stage too? Is it just because of stage performance issue or is there any other reason behind it?

For example; If I get an Arturia KeyLab Essential MK3 61 key controller for $219 plus its Arturia V Collection 9 Software with 8000+ sounds then what will I be missing compared to purchasing a Fantom 7 for $$3750 + Juno X for $2100 and whatever DAW Software needed at a total of almost $6000-$7000 ????

Since I am not a virtuoso keyboard player does it make more sense for me to get the controller type of keyboard and make the music on that type of setup?

Also WHAT IS considered most comprehensive yet user friendly Controller + DAW combo out there? Can you please advice me what kind of a ideal setup for me to look at?

One hint, I like my keyboard controller to look like a decent keyboard rather than those one octave tiny christmas toy look-a-like things...

Thanks in advance,

 

[Biggles]

You, as we oldies here in England say, are a mere slip of a lad, 65 is nothing I’m well over 70 and as for The Pet Shop Boys, their live shows are brilliant, surreal even.

Anyway, first, forget the Arturia Essential it is garbage. I started to go down the Arturia route the realised, add this, add that and add mega $ to the cost. Far better IMO to get Logic Pro or another piece of software that includes all you are likely to need and I believe Logic Pro has about 40Gb of included VST’s.

Second you do not need a controller to get going, your existing keyboard should interface with your computer and other features can be triggered via mouse

All a controller does is provide an input into the computer programme and the buttons/sliders etc on said controller do need either programming or a “patch file” installing which tells the computer software what each button/slider does.

I’ll leave it to others who know far more than I to advise more on Keyboard Controllers.

You quote Logic Pro which indicates you may have a Mac. If you do you have got the free Garage Band that will provide basic features to get you going.

The thing is with multiple keyboards all connected together you enter the Dark Side, the world of MIDI.

 

[happyrat1]

Just a quick recap of what I've said in threads here many times over...

Software has no resale value. Most used software cannot be resold.

Software kills creativity where you want to work spontaneously at a whim. 30 seconds to fire up the average keyboard while 2 or 3 minutes to fire up the laptop and load and configure the necessary software.

Digital vs analog arguments where it comes down to sound quality and digital artifacts at high frequencies.

Creativity. If I want to create a new sound on a Prophet or a Moog the sky's the limit by simply twiddling a few knobs and sliders. With software you have to jump from menu to menu and mouse-controlled, virtual knobs and sliders which I personally hate.

These are only a few of my contentions with software vs hardware synths and there are many others, including longevity of the instrument, which on a computer can be ruined by a simple update or upgrade. 12 years later my Kurzweil still functions predictably.

But ultimately the choice is yours based on your budget and objectives in music

 

[JimDavis]

You, as we oldies here in England say, are a mere slip of a lad, 65 is nothing I’m well over 70 and as for The Pet Shop Boys, their live shows are brilliant, surreal even.

Anyway, first, forget the Arturia Essential it is garbage. I started to go down the Arturia route the realised, add this, add that and add mega $ to the cost. Far better IMO to get Logic Pro or another piece of software that includes all you are likely to need and I believe Logic Pro has about 40Gb of included VST’s.

Second you do not need a controller to get going, your existing keyboard should interface with your computer and other features can be triggered via mouse

All a controller does is provide an input into the computer programme and the buttons/sliders etc on said controller do need either programming or a “patch file” installing which tells the computer software what each button/slider does.

I’ll leave it to others who know far more than I to advise more on Keyboard Controllers.

You quote Logic Pro which indicates you may have a Mac. If you do you have got the free Garage Band that will provide basic features to get you going.

The thing is with multiple keyboards all connected together you enter the Dark Side, the world of MIDI.

I think we have a problem here because, the line I highlighted above does not apply to me. I do not have an "existing" keyboard of any sort...
But I got your point and yes I am a Mac user.

 

[happyrat1]

The law of conservation of complexity, also known as Tesler's Law, or Waterbed Theory, is an adage in human–computer interaction stating that every application has an inherent amount of complexity that cannot be removed or hidden. Instead, it must be dealt with, either in product development or in user interaction.

Computers crash... A lot.... Keyboards not so much...

A BSOD on stage can end a career...

 

[happyrat1]

Or... Why bother at all and just pay this guy to use his computers?

 

[Biggles]

So you currently have no keyboard, that makes a big difference.

Over the years I remember you asking about various keyboards but I cannot remember you actually doing so, what have you actually bought and played?

 

[JimDavis]

So you currently have no keyboard, that makes a big difference.

Over the years I remember you asking about various keyboards but I cannot remember you actually doing so, what have you actually bought and played?

For a while I've had Fantom 7 (not 07) and then I tried Genos but didn't like the arranger feel and then I gave up and got myself a Roland drum set when I got an offer to join a church band. Then Covid hit and everything went south and sold and all I have left at home is my Les Paul + Tube Amp which is more than enough to bug my wife and our two little dogs...

 

[Biggles]

Good that you have a Mac, so no issues with crashes.

Wife’s iMac is nearly 12 years old and zero faults.

Only things to note is that they can be a bit difficult to set up with a controller. I had a Roland 800 controller and a guy on another forum had to give me chapter and verse on setting it up. Once done it worked well, not as though I could use it much.

Same controller on my Windows PC did not last I did not like the DAW‘s I tried, Abelton, and Cakewalk.

Good luck

 

[JimDavis]

Or... Why bother at all and just pay this guy to use his computers?

I think the world moving towards that way anyways, whether we like it or not...

 

[happyrat1]

Actually, if you're on a budget for a controller I have nothing but praise for Monoprice Controllers.

Way better built than M-Audio crap and a fraction of the price.

Excellent feel and response.

Amazon.ca

Amazon.ca

And consider a simple groovebox like the Roland MC-101.

It's a 4 track sampler, rompler, sequencer. drum machine and VA synth packed into a tiny little box the size of a box of chocolates.

Attach it to a keyboard-controller and you essentially have a mini-workstation module that can be powered by a USB power brick or even 4 AA batteries (Though power consumption sucks).

You can take the whole shooting match with you to the cottage in the summer or even just program beats on the subway on the way home from work.

It's got hundreds of Roland Drumsets built in, thousands of synth and orchestral patches built in and if you plug in some earbuds you can program it from the front panel after a brief learning curve. Case is METAL not plastic. Has MIDI IN and OUT DIN ports as well as USB MIDI. Many of the patches are from Roland's SuperNatural collection, It even has 1/4" stereo outputs.

It's an amazing little bit of technology that's priced for entry level but good enough to sound professional.

It never sold well because most people never understood its potential and spent twice as much on the MC-707 instead which is functionally identical except for the number of tracks.

Program beats, ballads, ambient soundscapes, whatever you're into with ease.

And yes, everything works with a mac as well

It's a hell of a piece of engineering.

 

[JimDavis]

Actually, if you're on a budget for a controller I have nothing but praise for Monoprice Controllers.

Way better built than M-Audio crap and a fraction of the price.

Excellent feel and response.

Amazon.ca

Amazon.ca

And consider a simple groovebox like the Roland MC-101.

It's a 4 track sampler, rompler, sequencer. drum machine and VA synth packed into a tiny little box the size of a box of chocolates.

Attach it to a keyboard-controller and you essentially have a mini-workstation module that can be powered by a USB power brick or even 4 AA batteries (Though power consumption sucks).

You can take the whole shooting match with you to the cottage in the summer or even just program beats on the subway on the way home from work.

It's got hundreds of Roland Drumsets built in, thousands of synth and orchestral patches built in and if you plug in some earbuds you can program it from the front panel after a brief learning curve. Case is METAL not plastic. Has MIDI IN and OUT DIN ports as well as USB MIDI. Many of the patches are from Roland's SuperNatural collection, It even has 1/4" stereo outputs.

It's an amazing little bit of technology that's priced for entry level but good enough to sound professional.

It never sold well because most people never understood its potential and spent twice as much on the MC-707 instead which is functionally identical except for the number of tracks.

Program beats, ballads, ambient soundscapes, whatever you're into with ease.

And yes, everything works with a mac as well

It's a hell of a piece of engineering.

I hate to sound like as if I am bragging, but in my case money is not consideration #1.... Of course as a reasonable rate.

I am not a rich old man by all means, but I am comfortable to spend a decent amount for quality equipment/s that will fit 100% to what I am looking to accomplish.

My #1 priority is to find a keyboard that is:

- Simple enough to use without requiring a 4 year sound engineering degree from MIT,

- Offers a large library of interesting sounds ( with that I don't mean 47 different pianos and 28 different violins but rather hundreds of unearthly(!) sounds and effects)

- A user friendly, easy to follow procedure to create complex arpeggios and drum patterns easily even by a novice player.

So far, Juno X seems like the best fit what I want to accomplish. I'll try to play with a floor model one at one of the GC tomorrow to see if I am right. Also I am watching ton of instruction videos on Juno X .

So, a Juno X + 2 Studio Monitors and a DAW for my Mac seems like an ok enough to occupy myself for days at a time.
I have too many hobbies and not enough time anyways...

Thanks for all the responses friends.

Especially to " happyrat1 " thanks for the detailed response and recommendations. Now I am also checking Roland MC101 too...

 

[JimDavis]

Here's an example of what I like to do... (I mean one of the things I like to do)

 

[Biggles]

A possible one box solution could be the Roland 08.

It has a 16 Track sequencer built in plus access to all the Roland sound files via their Cloud.

Hence only one OS to learn, no multiple manuals to wade through ie one for each Box, plus learning a DAW which in itself is not a task that can be rushed.

 

[JimDavis]

A possible one box solution could be the Roland 08.

It has a 16 Track sequencer built in plus access to all the Roland sound files via their Cloud.

Hence only one OS to learn, no multiple manuals to wade through ie one for each Box, plus learning a DAW which in itself is not a task that can be rushed.

Do you mean Fantom 08 or is there something else from Roland called 08 too???

 

[Biggles]

Yes, Roland Fantom 0 series,

 

[happyrat1]

It's a poor musician who blames his instrument.

 

[JimDavis]

Al

It's a poor musician who blames his instrument.

Also "it's a poor musician who can't afford a good quality instrument"

 

[Biggles]

Actually for what you want to do you only need to spend $0.

You already have what you need on your Mac with the Garage Band App, the App has a virtual keyboard if that is how you want to input.

If not then any MIDI keyboard controller could provide the input interface, an Akai MPK c$100 even has pads which can be used to input drums.

 

[happyrat1]

Actually if all he wants to do is generate loops he could do it with an iPhone, nothing else