Please help me in selecting a keyboard for live performances

[Rayblewit]

I played "Macarthur Park " . . Just Once!
My wife said I will be in the divorce court if I play it again.

 

[Tahitijack]

RAY was it the extended album version?

 

[Rayblewit]

Yes . . Well almost. . .
The fast bit eluded me so I cut the song shorter.
About 5 minutes instead of 7 mins LOL.
Actually, when I tried to speed it up, it sounded like "Raindrops Keep Falling on my Head" . . Yuk! Hahaha! A dud keyboardist!

 

[PaulOrr8179]

How does the Roland FA-06 or the Kong Krone EX stack up to the Roland Juno DS?

 

[anotherscott]

How does the Roland FA-06 or the Kong Krone EX stack up to the Roland Juno DS?

Each can do things the others can't. For creating and manipulating simple 2-way splits, I think the Juno DS is simplest.

 

[PaulOrr8179]

Each can do things the others can't. For creating and manipulating simple 2-way splits, I think the Juno DS is simplest.

Which has the best sounding grand piano and Hammond B3 organ with Leslie simulation?

 

[anotherscott]

Which has the best sounding grand piano and Hammond B3 organ with Leslie simulation?

Of those three boards, sonically, I'd choose Krome EX for piano, and Roland FA for organ.

Krome EX piano:

Roland FA piano:

For organ, this is an add-on pack for the FA, but it shows the capabilities.

(Krome and Juno DS have no "organ engine," just some presets.)

Though if I wanted a relatively low-cost board that was easy for splits and above average for piano and organ, I'd look at the Yamaha CK.

 

[Biggles]

I looked at an FA a while back, and whilst I was only interested in the FA 07 whose keybed I liked but did note that the reviews of the 06 trashed its keybed.

 

[anotherscott]

Yes... that's actually why I included the word "sonically" in my post, I was answering the specific question which was "best sounding." The action (how they feel to play) is a whole other conversation. Unless I only needed to do very basic stuff, I would not want to spend much time playing piano on a Juno DS61, FA-06, or Krome EX61. Yes, Fantom-07 would be better feeling for piano than any of those. And of course the 88 versions with their hammer actions will all be better than any of those for piano... but worse for organ playing (though the Krome 88 is probably a bit more amenable to organ playing than those Roland 88s).

 

[Biggles]

Yes... that's actually why I included the word "sonically" in my post, I was answering the specific question which was "best sounding." The action (how they feel to play) is a whole other conversation. Unless I only needed to do very basic stuff, I would not want to spend much time playing piano on a Juno DS61, FA-06, or Krome EX61. Yes, Fantom-07 would be better feeling for piano than any of those. And of course the 88 versions with their hammer actions will all be better than any of those for piano... but worse for organ playing (though the Krome 88 is probably a bit more amenable to organ playing than those Roland 88s).

You may have trashed their budget bringing in the Fantom 0 series !

Roland Juno DS 76 $999

Roland FA07 $1400

Roland Fantom 07 $1900

Prices from Sweetwater‘s website.

 

[Biggles]

The Yamaha PSR 500 is an old Arranger keyboard, amongst its features is Auto Accompaniment and if this is a feature that they will wish to retain in a new keyboard then it is a whole different Ball Game. Arrangers also have inbuilt amps and speakers and they are aimed at home keyboardists with the top end model often used by semi-pro performers.

Arrangers include, the Yamaha PSR SX700 which is $1500 and its bigger brother the PSR SX900 is $2300, with the top of range being the Genos which is an eye watering $5700.

So way different than an $800 Roland Juno DS 61 which is a workstation

Yamaha’s beginners range of keyboards (those not aimed at toddlers and very young kids) start with the E and EW series, and these are great for learning but not for a serious musician performing to an audience. As an example the top of range E473 is $370 and the EW425 (76 key) is $490.

 

[PaulOrr8179]

I just bought a used Roland Juno DS .
Thanks a bunch everyone!
P

 

[anotherscott]

You may have trashed their budget bringing in the Fantom 0 series !

Roland Juno DS 76 $999

Roland FA07 $1400

Roland Fantom 07 $1900

Prices from Sweetwater‘s website.

Whoops! I meant to type FA-07, it was in response to your previous comment.

 

[happyrat1]

Sorry. Had a brain fart.

 

[PaulOrr8179]

The Yamaha PSR 500 is an old Arranger keyboard, amongst its features is Auto Accompaniment and if this is a feature that they will wish to retain in a new keyboard then it is a whole different Ball Game. Arrangers also have inbuilt amps and speakers and they are aimed at home keyboardists with the top end model often used by semi-pro performers.

Arrangers include, the Yamaha PSR SX700 which is $1500 and its bigger brother the PSR SX900 is $2300, with the top of range being the Genos which is an eye watering $5700.

So way different than an $800 Roland Juno DS 61 which is a workstation

Yamaha’s beginners range of keyboards (those not aimed at toddlers and very young kids) start with the E and EW series, and these are great for learning but not for a serious musician performing to an audience. As an example the top of range E473 is $370 and the EW425 (76 key) is $490.

Okay now I'm getting somewhere. I understand what you say Mr. Biggies. Now, what about the sound engines (for lack of abetter word). Do the sound engines differ in "arranger" keyboards from"workstation" type keyboards? Does the Yamaha dx61 sound better than the Yamaha PSR-E473 because of a better sound engine?

The Yamaha P-125 keyboard's piano and other sounds are fabulous but it also has speakers that are positioned to sound good. But that keyboard is positioned for those who want an acoustic grand piano sound, and no synthesizer or effects.

If my keyboard player pulls out his Yamaha PSR-500 from the 90's or his Casio WK-6600 cheapie, and plugs into a quality keyboard amp, will this sound as good as the Yamaha dx61 or Roland Juno DS?

 

[Biggles]

The E series, being aimed at the beginner market are very much budget orientated. Why would Yamaha put into a low cost keyboard there highest quality sounds and electronics? If they did then a $400 E series keyboard would be all the vast majority of keyboardist‘s would actually need.

IMO Yamaha do produce the best Acoustic Piano sounds and if that is all that is needed then a P125 will fit the bill for a band on a limited budget, it has the sounds and a pretty good keybed which for a person used to playing an E series will feel awesome even if it is limited in other areas.

An E series or Casio will probably not sound anywhere near as good as a better quality keyboard when mixed and broadcast over the PA system.

Not sure which model you are referring to with the DX61 as there is not one, there is the MX61, MODX6 there is a but though, in that you get what you pay for and with regard to Keyboards there are micro markets in that a company like Korg has 22 keyboard synthesiser's alone so more than enough to saturate the market? No, other manufacturer’s have their own equivalent so that market is saturated, no, more and more are being developed.

The knock on is that there are very few “new” workstations and in fact what was the top of the range Korg has been dropped.

Roland did release a new keyboard in their 0 series but this is likely to blow your budget so you are left with little choice:-

Korg Kross 2
Korg Krone EX
Roland Juno DS
Roland FA
Roland 0 series
Yamaha MODX

I cannot say which would be best as each have their own Pros and Cons.

VFM then the Juno IMO wins

 

[anotherscott]

Do the sound engines differ in "arranger" keyboards from"workstation" type keyboards? Does the Yamaha dx61 sound better than the Yamaha PSR-E473 because of a better sound engine?

I assume you meant the MX61 you mentioned earlier (not DX). The specs say that the arranger sound generation method is AWM and the MX uses AWM2, so there could be some enhancements there that make a difference. But both are sample playback systems, and a lot of things affect the quality of sampled sounds, like the source (e.g. which piano was sampled, what kind of miking) and how "deeply" they are sampled (e.g. how many velocity layers, how many notes are individually sampled as opposed to stretched from adjacent samples, how many seconds of original attack are maintained before looping, whether there are different samples for pedal-up vs. pedal-down, etc.). So basically, the sampled pianos of different keyboards can sound very different, even if the sound engines are the same or similar. There are better pianos in Yamaha Montage than MX, even though both use the AWM2 engine. (And of course, even "better" can be somewhat subjective.) You can't tell whether you'll like a piano sound based on specs or sound engine... they only way to know is to listen to it.

If my keyboard player pulls out his Yamaha PSR-500 from the 90's or his Casio WK-6600 cheapie, and plugs into a quality keyboard amp, will this sound as good as the Yamaha dx61 or Roland Juno DS?

The amp can make a big difference, but it will not make one model's piano sound like another's.

That said, I don't know the PSR-500 or WK-6600, but when it comes to piano, I would not say that the Juno DS is the highest bar... but just based on the sample sizes in use in the 90s (based on the high price of memory at the time), I would guess that nothing from the 90s will sound as good as the Juno DS. And I think the MX piano sounds better than the Juno DS, though again, there can be some subjectivity to this too.

In a low-cost keyboard today, I think the Casio CT-S500 sounds surprisingly good for lots of sounds, including piano. (CT-S1 and CT-S1000V similar.)

 

[PaulOrr8179]

Yes sorry, the Yamaha MX61. After a while the model numbers start to blur me.

The band wants best sounding piano and organ. The keyboard player wants ease of storing all settings and recall, and light weight. He wants to split the keyboard, play different brass on each split, transpose, store it all in memory and call the settings back up using a numeric keypad. I thing the MX61 can do but you have to use the scroll wheel to pick off which settings in your list you want.

Our keyboard player has nixed just about every higher end keyboard for lack of split, or transpose, or weight, its always something that in his mind prevents him from moving on to a pro level keyboard.

 

[anotherscott]

The band wants best sounding piano and organ.

Keep in mind (as alluded to elsewhere) that the best actions to play piano from are not the best for organ, and vice versa. But how much of a limitation that is depends on repertoire and playing style/technique.

The keyboard player wants ease of storing all settings and recall, and light weight. He wants to split the keyboard, play different brass on each split, transpose, store it all in memory and call the settings back up using a numeric keypad. I thing the MX61 can do but you have to use the scroll wheel to pick off which settings in your list you want.

You can also use the MX Tools from John Melas, which allow you to do all the MX61 settings more easily from a Mac or PC... and it also provides access to many more settigs that can't be done directy on teh MX at all.

Our keyboard player has nixed just about every higher end keyboard for lack of split, or transpose, or weight

Virtually every keyboard can transpose, and the majority can split... though the specifics (ease, flexibility) can differ.

For what you've said you want, looking at lightweight piano/organ boards in a lower price range, my first choice would be Yamaha CK61. Another possibility could be the Numa Compact 2X, though patch selection is more awkward (mostly, you use a knob to scroll through your sounds as needed), and I think its piano/organ lag the Yamaha. But both of those are also good for supplementing with additional sounds from an iPhone or iPad (which is something else you can also use for patch selection), and that's also way to improve on the pianos/organs if need be. After those, Roland VR-09/VR-730 and FA-07/06 could also be possibilities, with different trade-offs. All of these at least give you organ drawbar control, which you don't get with the Yamaha arrangers that have been mentioned, or Kross/Krome, or Juno DS, or Yamaha MX.

 

[Biggles]

Your requirements are expanding.

Without breaking the bank either a Roland Juno DS or a Korg Kross 2 will do as you seek, both will do splits and the tones each side of the split can be different.

Certainly with the Kross 2 that I had I could even have four different tones in four different areas of the keybed. Set the split, then in each side of the split limit where each of the assigned tones actually sound. All be it on a 61 key keyboard using it was tight.

So before I finish for good on this thread.

A Roland Juno DS should be your number one in the list simply because its piano tones are better than on the Korg which IMO were pretty mundane.

BTW
Ignore the Numa Compact 2X that Scott suggests, it is lightweight, flimsy construction, its operating system is a mess and the piano tones are mediocre, though the organ is good as is the keybed. Mine just broke, and all it has done is stay on my stand at home for the last three years