A Question To Ponder???

happyrat1

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Very often when seeking a new keyboard people tend to freak out about a certain brand of keybed and instantly decide it is not worth owning. Particularly when it's an 88 hammer board.

What I'm wondering is whether or not most people actively test all of the keybed velocity settings before they made their judgment and or recommendations.

I don't know about most of you, but I generally switch settings to the lightest pretty much out of necessity.

But Manufacturer's usually ship with a middle settiing, which I suppose is to appeal to acoustic piano players and synth keyboardists at the same time.???

Granted if you learned to play on an Acoustic Upright you are very happy pounding away to get a note.

I do wonder about some of the recommendations we've made over the years though, if certain boards have been treated unfairly, simply because all of our test drives have been with Vanilla settings?

Gary ;)
 

Rayblewit

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Sales staff tend to dominate when selling features. They always pump up the volume too.
The buyer needs to have "my time" at the demo model to sift through all of the settings.
To spend time alone without prejudice comments from the sales pitch.
Ray
 

happyrat1

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Very true Ray. Most showrooms are impatient for you to buy and get pissed when they have to reset or reconfigure after you leave.

It's all about getting your money as quickly and as easily as they can get it.

Understandable considering they are not operating a charity, but especially with the cheaper models, the margins can be razor thin at times.

It'a tough to convince a salesman you're worth wasting his time for less than a $2000 sale.

Gary ;)
 
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Very well said Gary & Ray.

If I know what I want to have a go playing when I go into a store I do my research prior and even download to my iPad the manuals.

Hence I go instore with my shoulder bad containing my headphones, iPad and a couple of adaptors, I have even taken my Camera Adaptor and a USB lead and connect my iPad up to the keyboard.

We are lucky here in England, as Sales staff do not tend to be pushy, they get you started and leave you to it.

If you remember my pondering’s over a Roland FA, I spent hours instore playing it only to discount it on age and the lack of easy realtime control of volumes of layered parts.

At no time have I tended to seek out and adjust keybed settings in and music store, so perhaps I need to amend my routine.
 
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I do not think that many people here do - at least in my area. I live in Iowa though, in the USA, and most people that go to Guitar Center are looking for a PSR series or something for beginner piano lessons. In our local Guitar Center (Cedar Rapids, IA), there is very little in the realm of professional gear to look over.

At our store, most of the gear was not hooked up correctly and I would go in and actually change it so the gear would sound good. You CANNOT play an instrument through a single speaker and expect to sell it with confidence. Guitar Center one of only two stores in our area, and the other store does not really carry synths other than Kurzweil. They also carry Casio and Yamaha, but focus on the piano side of things.

Most of us are forced to look online. When I lived in Texas (Dallas/Fort Worth area), the local stores had a more comprehensive selection and more knowledgable staff to help one out if they needed it. They did not have a problem with people sitting at the gear for extended periods of time and trying them out.

I will say that most of the keyboards available in either scenario were basically taken out of the box and wrappings and placed on a shelf/stand for people to see/play. They did nothing to change the stock settings in any way, so it would appeal to a wider audience.

One such scenario in our local Guitar Center caused a Yamaha MX88 to sit on the shelf for a LONG time. No wanted to play it because it sounded bad. When I sat down at it, it sounded terrible. It was plugged into a mono keyboard amp and it did sound terrible. I started messing around with the settings and added some Reverb to the piano and changed the velocity settings and it completely changed the keyboard. It sounded great and played great. It sold a couple of days later.

Weighted keybed action is completely subjective though, so what I did to make that MX88 playable FOR ME may have been the wrong setting for someone else.

Piano sounds are subjective as well. I happen to like Korg's piano sounds on the Kross units I have, but I have programmed them myself. I like the piano sound of my Lowrey/Kawai, but I have learned that Kawai's piano sounds are an acquired taste. I used to really like Roland's piano sounds, but they really brittle to my ears now.

I have not been in this forum for very long, but I have been in the Korg Forums for quite a long time. I have not seen anyone really get so biased about a product in here that it would lessen my view of their opinion about a piece of gear in this forum.

I think that we all try to be subjective and unbiased in here, and I know that I try to do that. I happen to like Korg gear and have A LOT of experience with their gear spanning many years - decades even. I have learned many of their tendencies and I believe that helps qualify me for giving advice on their gear. Even, then, I know that my preferences for Korg will come through, because I have a lot of it in my studio and live rig and because of that, I can say how they work on those situations.

The Korg Forums, on the other hand, are understandably biased toward Korg gear, but the obvious comparisons between them and Yamaha are listed at nauseum. There are so many people getting so detailed in the sample rates, how the samples are processed, etc... that I think it turns people off. People are so worried about the specs before even laying their hands on either brand of gear that it makes me laugh.

I also think that many people really do not know what they want. They scan through these forums and are simply parroting what others have said about different things and that is what they think they need. They really need to sit down and write out a list of what they want, in detail, so we can help them find something that may work for them. Ultimately, they need to PLAY the recommendations in person before making any choices.

I think that we had it easier back in the day. I will be 51 very soon, and when I started playing piano, I actually started on a 3-octave air organ from Sears. I played that thing for a couple of years before my grandparents bought me a Wurlitzer Spinet piano that was made before WWII. I got my classical training on that thing. For recitals, I used a Yamaha grand piano. I have played just about every kind of acoustic piano out there from the aforementioned spinet, to uprights, to baby grands, to concert grands in all sizes and price ranges. My favorite piano that I ever played on was a Kawai 9ft grand at the church I used to attend in Houston, TX, when I was a teenager in the 80's. It felt like butter to me and was a joy to play.

I also remember as a teen, going to music stores and looking at the new keyboards. It was a different time back then because of the tech being so new. When the DX came out, ALL of the stores wanted you to play them for as long as you wanted to and they were very helpful in presenting it the best way possible. When the D50 came out, it was the same way. It was also true of the Poly-800, DW6000/DW8000/M1 and so many more. Ensoniq even had a presence (albeit a lesser one), and they went completely above and beyond for helping with their products.

Part of the problem is the stores themselves. There are more big box stores and chains than smaller stores now and so the customer service gets lost with the big box stores. I watch videos from a couple of the big companies overseas, like Bonners and Anderson's, and they seem like they are great stores to buy from with lots of help available. I wish we had those types of stores here in my area because I think that they would be huge here.

The biggest problem with Guitar Center is that they are not properly training their people on all aspects of what they sell. They are clearly more interested in selling guitars, but if they are going to stock other things, they need to be trained on those things. Do not hire a guy from the 'bleep-blip' crowd to sell a digital piano or synth for live use, especially if they do not know HOW to play.

I hope that I did not go too far off topic...

Grace,
Harry
 

rsm

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It's always a personal choice. I've learned to adapt to most keyboards, even minikeys, and a KMI QuNexus.

I didn't learn on a real piano, so real piano feel, weighted keys, etc., are something I avoid by choice, and I rarely use piano sounds except as a last resort.

My keybed of choice is waterfall organ, as I'm primarily an organist, and secondarily a "synthesist" with a penchant for keytars. :) (I have one Alesis Vortex, two Alesis Vortex2, and a Korg RK-100S, got tired of waiting for the RK-100S2 release, and I like the high-gloss, '80s look of the 100S over the dull wood of the 100S2. All personal preference.
 
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It's always a personal choice. I've learned to adapt to most keyboards, even minikeys, and a KMI QuNexus.

I didn't learn on a real piano, so real piano feel, weighted keys, etc., are something I avoid by choice, and I rarely use piano sounds except as a last resort.

My keybed of choice is waterfall organ, as I'm primarily an organist, and secondarily a "synthesist" with a penchant for keytars. :) (I have one Alesis Vortex, two Alesis Vortex2, and a Korg RK-100S, got tired of waiting for the RK-100S2 release, and I like the high-gloss, '80s look of the 100S over the dull wood of the 100S2. All personal preference.
I can adapt as well, but I do prefer a piano action for piano stuff.

I too have a Vortex and break it out occasionally on stage :)

Grace,
Harry
 
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This was the hardest part of buying a keyboard for me. Even if you live in a big city, finding boards like Kurzweils and whatnot are tricky and I've had to get creative to try them out (sound reinforcement companies, theaters, etc). I bought my Forte feel untouched, but it was the best I ever played in terms of action. So, you get lucky sometimes.
 
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What I'm wondering is whether or not most people actively test all of the keybed velocity settings before they made their judgment and or recommendations.
I think you make a good point here Gary. I doubt many people would take the time to do this. Me included, haha!

Personally I find the “high end” Korg, Roland and Yamaha weighted actions all very playable, more so than many upright pianos I’ve used, again reinforcing one of your points.
 

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