Casio Privia 160 vs Casio CDP350: are they even for me anyway?

[Aaron Houts]

I owned a DS61 and traded it in for a DS88. With a soft bag from gator it weighs in about 50 lbs. I don't gig with mine but if you're a sturdy fellow and can fit it into your car I don't see any reason why you couldn't gig with it. I really love mine. It has all those voices, the ability to load samples and expansion packs and a vocoder to boot. What's not to love?

I got used to weighted hammer action keys with my Kurzweil PC3K8 and the 61 key version simply didn't cut it for me. It's a decent 61 synth action but the 88 version really shines.

Gary

It's really looking like it may be worth it to get the DS88.
It seems like it's what I was looking for all along.
By stepping up to that price point, I end up getting the 88 weighted keys after all.
It sounds ideal for when I eventually get good enough to play left hand bass with the number of keys.
Am I able to split the outputs into two different signals for left hand bass?
For my purposes, I may be able to get away with one keyboard if I hold out and get this one!

What kind of stand should I look for if I want to play it standing up?

Is there a stand that will do both standing and sitting heights well?

Also, it doesn't have speakers. Could I use my bass amp at home and the PA at band practice until I get a keyboard amp?

 

[Biggles]

To throw a spoiler about the Juno 88, it is a few years older than its main competitor the Korg Kross 2 88 which is only two years old in design. The Juno does not have as good a recording function and the Pads are not as good or as versatile. The Juno is still a very good sounding keyboard but do check out how easy both units are to record say a Bass riff, save it to a Pad and call it up by pressing the Pad.

The Kross 2 88 really takes the prize in the weight department the keyboard is only 27 lbs so put it in a gig bag with pedal and power supply and it will only be just over 30 lbs so way less than the Juno.

 

[Aaron Houts]

To throw a spoiler about the Juno 88, it is a few years older than its main competitor the Korg Kross 2 88 which is only two years old in design. The Juno does not have as good a recording function and the Pads are not as good or as versatile. The Juno is still a very good sounding keyboard but do check out how easy both units are to record say a Bass riff, save it to a Pad and call it up by pressing the Pad.

The Kross 2 88 really takes the prize in the weight department the keyboard is only 27 lbs so put it in a gig bag with pedal and power supply and it will only be just over 30 lbs so way less than the Juno.

Thank you!
Once again, you're a few steps ahead of me, but at least now, I'm heading in the right direction.

Weight is a priority for me as I'll be bringing it back and forth to practice once or twice a week and taking it to gigs. I was realizing that the Korg Kross 2 88 would probably be the way to go.

Do the keys have the same level of quality feel that the Roland would?

Can I split the signal for left hand bass and use one amp for bass and a separate amp for the upper keys?

I found a lightly used one, but the keys looked different. The looked more like synth keys I guess. I'm not sure what the term is as opposed to "filled in" keys. Is there a previous version of the Korg Kross 2 with different keys?

I want to make sure I get the filled in ones like the new Kross 2 and the Juno.

 

[happyrat1]

Honestly don't choose based on other people's opinions.

Go to a music store and try both the Kross and the Roland and decide for yourself which one feels and sounds right.

The Juno's keyboard can be split in up to 16 zones which can individually be assigned any range of keys to overlap and or split for some amazing layers and splits.

And it's not exactly ancient either. It's only 3 years old.

Biggles has a bit of an obsession with Korgs really.

Like I said. Go to a music store and try them both out and let your fingers and ears decide.

Gary

 

[Aaron Houts]

Honestly don't choose based on other people's opinions.

Go to a music store and try both the Kross and the Roland and decide for yourself which one feels and sounds right.

The Juno's keyboard can be split in up to 16 zones which can individually be assigned any range of keys to overlap and or split for some amazing layers and splits.

And it's not exactly ancient either. It's only 3 years old.

Biggles has a bit of an obsession with Korgs really.

Like I said. Go to a music store and try them both out and let your fingers and ears decide.

Gary

Absolutely!

My band has plans for a Guitar Center/Sam Ash Expedition next Saturday. I just wanted to get as much research done as I could beforehand so I'll know what I'm looking at. If it weren't for everyone's help on this forum, I'd probably be looking at digital pianos!

Do both the Kross 2 and Juno DS88 have the split signal capabilities for left hand bass?
I'm guessing they do. What's the name of that function so I know how to look for it?
I'd really like to be able to use two separate amps.

 

[happyrat1]

On the Juno the split button is clearly marked on the upper left corner of the controls. This works for simple splits. Then there's the layer and super layer buttons. The super layer allows you to edit zones and key ranges for up to 16 simultaneous instruments.

BTW, one important note for a gigging musician.

The Juno will hold a note even after you switch to a different voice as long as you hold down the key.

The Kross lacks this feature and will abruptly switch voices to a jarring effect.

Gary

 

[anotherscott]

So far, it looks like the Korg Kross, Roland Juno or the Numa 2X might be possibilities.

Is the disadvantage of the Numa 2X vs the other two mainly that it has less sounds?

Each board has its own pros and cons. If you're looking at the Kross and Juno, I'd also consider trying to stretch to the Kurzweil SP6 since organ is one of your priorities, and Kross/Juno aren't so great there. But of the three you mentioned...

Numa advantages: light weight, best organ, more real-time synth controls, aftertouch. Disadvantages: fewer sounds, awkward quick patch selection, max two sounds at a time, can't pan the sounds to different outputs, sounds cut-off when you switch them. Not a hammer action.

Roland and Korg have hammer action and a lot more sounds, with extensive split/layer functions, and you can pan sounds to one side or the other. Korg sounds cut off when you change, Roland doesn't (though you may hear an fx glitch). Korg has full built-in sequencer which Roland lacks, and more flexible 16-zone external MIDI control. Roland gives you better ability to control two sounds of a split in real-time (change each sound's volume or octave easily, or swap out one right hand sound for another, and with no glitch). Roland has more sliders/knobs for real-time sound manipulation. The Roland is a bit on the heavy side, though.

 

[Biggles]

As has been pointed out so well, there are Pros and Cons not only with the keyboards quoted so far but with any keyboard.

I suppose if there was such a beast as the perfect keyboard we all would have one.

Well I suppose that there is and yes it is a Korg, this time it is the Kronos, the King of keyboards.

Sorry, I am a bit obsessed with Korg’s ( thats not true the term BIT should read A LOT ).

With a Split applied to any keyboard (not just a Korg) you can set up what instrument voice sounds in each area of the split. It does not have to be left hand Bass, the Bass can be where ever you want it applied. With an 88 key keyboard you could have multiple “splits” set up say every two octaves with each pair of octaves having a single or multiple instrument voices sounding. This is certainly possible with the Roland and yes even the Korg will do it I cannot comment on others as I am not as familiar with them.

By now you have to be reaching a state of information overload so may I suggest that you:-

1 - review all that has been written so far
2 - look at reviews of the links, tutorials and keyboards quoted
3 - think about specifically what you now wish to achieve
4 - write down the Pros & Cons of each keyboard from your perspective
5 - collate all your notes in one written file and share that with us
6 - following comments received, review and amend your file
7 - print out your file and take it to your favourite Music Store at a quiet time for them and have them show you each keyboard you are considering and let them have a printout of your file so that they can run through and demo each element.

If you follow all the advice given by the members here and actually buy the keyboard that best suits your usage you will be buying wisely and buying once.

Good luck and best wishes at this exciting time for you even though it must be as confusing as !!!!!

 

[Aaron Houts]

Thank you again so much!
Those are great ideas!

I want to refocus my search as I weigh the pros and cons.
Now that I've adjusted my price point and expectations, it seems I have a chance at something will the following:
-88 key weighted piano like board
-light weight and portablity
-range of basic sounds
-splitable keyboard with separate outputs

It seems like both the Kross 2 and the Juno will do all of this.
Would a Yamaha MX88 be a similar keyboard?

I'll definitely try out all of them, but since weight is a top priority, the Kross 2 goes to the front of the line. At this point, it's a matter of finding a reason that the Korg WOULDN'T work. Price may be that reason as the Korg is my reach financially as well.

The Yamaha MX88 might be a potential backup if it's a comparable instrument.

 

[Biggles]

The Yamaha is a capable board and worth considering as it is the direct competitor to the Kross 2 and Juno.

Your luck is in, Andertons have produced a side by side comparrison.

Andertons are one of the main Music Stores here in the UK, they produce a lot of videos which are well worth watching if you do not mind the presentation style.

 

[SeaGtGruff]

As far as "obsessions," I think we all have our own most favorites and least favorites. If we aren't very passionate about our keyboards, it's either time to get different keyboards or a different hobby.

 

[anotherscott]

-88 key weighted piano like board
-light weight and portablity
-range of basic sounds
-splitable keyboard with separate outputs

It seems like both the Kross 2 and the Juno will do all of this.
Would a Yamaha MX88 be a similar keyboard?

Yes, MX88 will also do all these things. You'd have to use the computer editor, though, to pan your individual sounds to one side or the other.

Getting back to something that has been alluded to earlier, being able to switch sounds without having held/sustained notes being cut off, here's an example of where that comes into play in your scenario of eventually playing bass with your left hand. Let's say you've got a piano+bass split for the verses, and you come to the chorus and you need to change your RH sound from piano to organ. Different boards provide different facilities for doing this, but a common way to do a quick change is to hit a button that changes from your "bass+piano" saved combination to your "bass+organ" combination. On the Kross, the issue isn't only that any piano chord being held with your sustain pedal will immediately cut off when you press the button to prepare to play your upcoming organ part, but also that any bass note you're playing will cut off at your switch moment as well. So you must time your program changes carefully, you have to hit them in between beats at a moment in the song when you can afford to briefly have no bass at all.

If you do end up wanting the Korg, a workaround for that is to do a 3-way split (bass, piano, organ) which lets you seamlessly switch your RH between piano and organ sounds just by playing different keys (you can change the octaves the sounds play in regardless of where you play them, and 88 keys helps give you enough room to do that kind of thing). But this kind of switching between very specific pairs with fewer keys is is obviously more limited than being able to switch among a wide variety of sounds with large key ranges.

In terms of switching a RH sound over the full RH key range without glitching the LH bass, Kross can't do it; Yamaha MX can do it in a limited fashion (you can at least do it within user-specified groups of up to 8 possible RH sounds, using the computer editor); Juno DS gives you the most flexibility in this.

since weight is a top priority, the Kross 2 goes to the front of the line. At this point, it's a matter of finding a reason that the Korg WOULDN'T work. Price may be that reason as the Korg is my reach financially as well.

I think the lightest AND cheapest board that meets your criteria is the Casio PX360, and I'm pretty sure there is good flexibility for changing a RH sound without glitching your LH bass. Kross advantages would include modulation wheel, better MIDI functionality, trigger pads, more simultaneous effects, more sounds, and the ability to split/layer up to 16 sounds any way that you want (I think Casio goes up to 4 sounds with a single split point, i.e. you can have up to 2 sounds above the split and up to 2 below). Casio has a pretty nice touchscreen interface, and built-in speakers which can sometimes come in handy. The actual sounds of the Korg are probably better, but this can vary depending on exactly which sounds you're comparing and is also somewhat subjective. (Casio also has the PX560 which is better, but that gets out of your price range.)

Some more distinctions I didn't mention earlier: Kross and Juno (and Kurzweil) have monophonic synth modes and portamento which give them better lead synth capability than Numa (or Casio). And as I alluded to in the previous paragraph, there are also differences in how many effects you can put on an individual sound, and how many total effects are available at once, and that comparison can get a bit complicated. But for example, Kross has 5 available insert effects, Yamaha has 4, Juno DS has 3, Casio has 1. (An insert effect is something that can be assigned individually to just one sound within a split/layered combination, separate from global effects that can be applied to everything you're playing.) Yamaha permits you to use only one such effect on an individual sound. I believe Roland and Korg let you gang them up... i.e. you could put all 5 Korg effects on a single sound, if you wanted to (though then leaving none to put on some other split or layered sound). Biggles could probably confirm this.

 

[Biggles]

Yes, 5 FX per Program.

To say the menu system of available adjustments is extensive is an understatement.

You could end up with repetitive strain injury pushing the access button enough times to get to the menu concerned.

Thank goodness Korg have a software editor available to use which makes the task far, far easier.

I would presume Roland and Yamaha also have a similar extensive range of adjustments, probably also worth checking what the available downloads are for each keyboard to see if the other manufacturers have interface software available.

BTW
The Korg software also functions as an interface for MIDI operations, I cannot help much on this element as I am very much a newbie in the use of MIDI.

Before I bought the Kross 2 it was a close call between it and the Roland Juno DS, I did have a quick play if a few Yamaha keyboards but I find the tone of them shrill and harsh so they were quickly discounted. For me the Kross only won because of its smaller physical size and very light weight.

Had I not primarily wanted a keyboard that was easy to transport then I probably would have bought the Roland as I already have a Korg Pa arranger.

Scott explained splitting the keyboard into three zones to circumvent the cut off problem of the Kross 2, and this is precisely what I do. The top octave and a half with one sound the bottom one and a half octaves with a layered set of sounds and the lead in the centre. It can be a bit tight with only 61 keys but I am limited in what I can fit in the available space and have to live with it.

 

[Aaron Houts]

The Yamaha is a capable board and worth considering as it is the direct competitor to the Kross 2 and Juno.

Your luck is in, Andertons have produced a side by side comparrison.

Andertons are one of the main Music Stores here in the UK, they produce a lot of videos which are well worth watching if you do not mind the presentation style.

Thank you!
Okay, so judging from the video, it looks like any of these three will have the level of quality overall and the variety of sounds I would need.
They all have quality piano like boards.

It seems like I can't go wrong. Any of these keyboards would be an instrument that I'd thoroughly enjoy and would suit my purposes.

It seems from the comments on the video that the Juno has the most piano like feel.
That's a pro for the Juno.
Price is also a pro for the Juno.
Weight is THE big con for the Juno.

As far as "obsessions," I think we all have our own most favorites and least favorites. If we aren't very passionate about our keyboards, it's either time to get different keyboards or a different hobby.

...and that's how it should be!
Seeing how much and why you all like your keyboards is really helping me decide what I'd like and why!
This forum has really transformed the keyboard research process in a good way.
It has turned into more of a commitment than I had planned, but I'm more excited about it now!
I was looking into getting a backup bass, but this will replace that project.
I'm even more excited about getting the keyboard than I would be about getting another bass. That's really saying something!
That excitement came from learning from this thread what keyboards can do.
Thank you!

Yes, MX88 will also do all these things. You'd have to use the computer editor, though, to pan your individual sounds to one side or the other.

Well, that knocks out the Yamaha for me. I don't want to mess with computers while I'm playing.

Getting back to something that has been alluded to earlier, being able to switch sounds without having held/sustained notes being cut off, here's an example of where that comes into play in your scenario of eventually playing bass with your left hand. Let's say you've got a piano+bass split for the verses, and you come to the chorus and you need to change your RH sound from piano to organ. Different boards provide different facilities for doing this, but a common way to do a quick change is to hit a button that changes from your "bass+piano" saved combination to your "bass+organ" combination. On the Kross, the issue isn't only that any piano chord being held with your sustain pedal will immediately cut off when you press the button to prepare to play your upcoming organ part, but also that any bass note you're playing will cut off at your switch moment as well. So you must time your program changes carefully, you have to hit them in between beats at a moment in the song when you can afford to briefly have no bass at all.

I know it will take me a while to be able to do, but I'm REALLY interested in playing left hand bass so that's a priority in choosing.
I have to decide how important the sustain while changing issue is. It could be the deal breaker that puts the Juno back in first place.
In general, I wouldn't guess I'd change sounds while playing. I don't like to on bass, but it may be more of an integral part of playing keys.

I think the lightest AND cheapest board that meets your criteria is the Casio PX360, and I'm pretty sure there is good flexibility for changing a RH sound without glitching your LH bass. Kross advantages would include modulation wheel, better MIDI functionality, trigger pads, more simultaneous effects, more sounds, and the ability to split/layer up to 16 sounds any way that you want (I think Casio goes up to 4 sounds with a single split point, i.e. you can have up to 2 sounds above the split and up to 2 below). Casio has a pretty nice touchscreen interface, and built-in speakers which can sometimes come in handy. The actual sounds of the Korg are probably better, but this can vary depending on exactly which sounds you're comparing and is also somewhat subjective. (Casio also has the PX560 which is better, but that gets out of your price range.)

What?!
How did the Casio Privia get back into play?
anotherscott, you've brought us full circle.

Now that you've shown me all of these wonderful new boards like the Kross 2 and the Juno, I don't know if I can go back to considering the Privia. I'll have to ponder that and will try to keep an open mind.

Okay, my brain has been melted again, but I think we've got it down to two.
Here are what I perceive as my most important pros and cons of each.

Kross 2
pro: LIGHT!!!
cons: price
sustain during left hand bass

Juno
pros: sustain during left hand bass
price
feel
con: HEAVY!!!

If they weighed the same, I'd go with the Juno-even if it were the more expensive one.

...and don't worry, I know all bets are off until I play them and see them in person.
That might decide it right there. It'd be great if it did.
6 more days...

 

[Biggles]

The Sales staff in your favourite Music Store will help but do take note of what they have in stock, what they are main agents for etc to ensure you are not being lead in the direction that is not right for you.

Good luck.

 

[SeaGtGruff]

Well, that knocks out the Yamaha for me. I don't want to mess with computers while I'm playing.

The Yamaha MX synths have 4 assignable function knobs for changing certain parameters during live play, and one of those knobs can be set to the Pan setting. However, the knobs are for controlling the primary parts of a performance-- that is, the main right-hand voice and the split (left-hand) or dual (right-hand layered) voice. Where the computer program comes in is in setting up all 16 parts of a performance ahead of time, and once you've set up all 16 parts of a performance you can save everything in the synth and you won't need to use the computer anymore while you're playing. So you can set up the Pan settings of each of the 16 parts ahead of time, but if you need to change the Pan setting while playing live then you'll be limited to doing so on the parts which can be modified live using those assignable knobs.

 

[anotherscott]

Well, that knocks out the Yamaha for me. I don't want to mess with computers while I'm playing.

No, there's no need to mess with the computer (or even have one attached) while playing. You need the computer at home to set up the patches just the way you want in order to do some of these things, but once you save those patches in the MX, you never need to connect the computer again. At the gig, you recall the sound combinations you want, and it's no different whether you call up a sound combination you programmed on the unit itself or one that you programmed with the more advanced parameters available when you hook up the computer editor.

What?!
How did the Casio Privia get back into play?
anotherscott, you've brought us full circle.

Now that you've shown me all of these wonderful new boards like the Kross 2 and the Juno, I don't know if I can go back to considering the Privia. I'll have to ponder that and will try to keep an open mind.

Worth noting that the the original Casios you mentioned do not have the ability to pan different sounds of a split to their own outputs. I'm pretty sure the PX-360 can. Overall, I'd say the Kross and Juno DS are more capable and better sounding than the PX-360, but if the PX-360 is good enough, it will be cheaper and lighter, probably simplest in operation, and possibly have the best feeling action.

 

[Aaron Houts]

No, there's no need to mess with the computer (or even have one attached) while playing. You need the computer at home to set up the patches just the way you want in order to do some of these things, but once you save those patches in the MX, you never need to connect the computer again. At the gig, you recall the sound combinations you want, and it's no different whether you call up a sound combination you programmed on the unit itself or one that you programmed with the more advanced parameters available when you hook up the computer editor.


Worth noting that the the original Casios you mentioned do not have the ability to pan different sounds of a split to their own outputs. I'm pretty sure the PX-360 can. Overall, I'd say the Kross and Juno DS are more capable and better sounding than the PX-360, but if the PX-360 is good enough, it will be cheaper and lighter, probably simplest in operation, and possibly have the best feeling action.

Oh. Okay.
Thanks!

They both sound like good possibilities then.
All right, so that'll give me four to focus on when I hit the stores.
Casio PX360
Korg Kross 2
Yamaha MX88
Roland Juno DS88

The Yamaha MX synths have 4 assignable function knobs for changing certain parameters during live play, and one of those knobs can be set to the Pan setting. However, the knobs are for controlling the primary parts of a performance-- that is, the main right-hand voice and the split (left-hand) or dual (right-hand layered) voice. Where the computer program comes in is in setting up all 16 parts of a performance ahead of time, and once you've set up all 16 parts of a performance you can save everything in the synth and you won't need to use the computer anymore while you're playing. So you can set up the Pan settings of each of the 16 parts ahead of time, but if you need to change the Pan setting while playing live then you'll be limited to doing so on the parts which can be modified live using those assignable knobs.

Thank you!

How does the Yamaha MX88 do with the sustain during sound change in left hand bass issue?

Also, can anyone offer offer any help as to stands?

Do I need a double braced X?

Are those even sturdy enough?

I've been struggling with this piece as well.

Thanks for all of your patience!

 

[anotherscott]

All right, so that'll give me four to focus on when I hit the stores.
Casio PX360
Korg Kross 2
Yamaha MX88
Roland Juno DS88

If they don't have those exact models...

...Casio PX360 will have same sounds as PX560 except for the ones in the hexlayer category which are only in the 560. Actions are the same (also same action as PX160).

...Kross 2 61 will have the same sounds as the Kross 2 88. I believe the Kross 88's action would also be similar to the action of the 88 key Krome, B1, B2, LP180, SP280 but there does seem to be some variation even among models that are supposed to have the same action.

...I believe the Yamaha MX49 and MX61 have the same sounds as the MX88.

...Juno DS88 has same sounds as DS61 and DS76, and has the same action as the FA-08.

...Casio PX360 will have same sounds as PX560 except for the ones in the hexlayer category which are only in the 560. Actions are the same (also same action as PX160).

How does the Yamaha MX88 do with the sustain during sound change in left hand bass issue?

Expanding on what I said earlier, using the computer editor, you can set up "Performances" which are sets of 16 sounds that can be recalled in different combinations, without any sound cut-offs (and up to 4 of the sounds can have their own independent effects). So at least one way to do this is to use this to set up 8 sound combinations you can switch among with no cut-offs, i.e. bass+piano, bass+organ, bass+rhodes, etc. etc.). If that's not enough, you can then create a second Performance with another 8 such pairs, and so on.

 

[Aaron Houts]

Thank you again!

Okay, so let me see if I've got this right:

I really like the idea of splitting the board in half with two different voicings and sending the left side of the keyboard to my bass amp and the right side to a keyboard amp.

The Juno, the Kross 2 and the MX88 can all do this, right?

The issue is with notes from one section of the keyboard getting cut off when I change the voice of the other section.

With the Kross 2 this can't be avoided without using three sections.

With the MX88 it can be avoided by actually changing the whole board to a selection in a set of pre-programmed pairings. (i.e moving from a preprogrammed bass+piano board to a bass+organ board)

The Juno seems to shine here where each side can operate independently of the other. I could play on one side and change to any other voice on the other side without an cut offs.

Do I have all of that right?