Please read comments below - this entry did not originally appear on the page so I
wrote it again & ended up repeating myself!!!
wrote it again & ended up repeating myself!!!
Greetings from Ireland
- Thread starter slane4
- Start date
Whilst I understand (& agree with) the above points - particularly the polyphony issue - I think we risk losing track of what Greg is really looking for.
On hearing his original query, it immediately brought to mind the numerous occasions
(in my capacity as a piano tuner) that I have been asked the same question by my clients - many of whom are church-goers themselves with (apparently) the exact same requirements as Greg. (I admit I'm making assumptions here).
Upon seeing instruments such as the Mo8 (remember Greg dismissed 61-notes from the outset) their reaction is, almost without exception, one of bewilderment.
This is no way to go about enjoying your music.
Your relationship with your instrument should be (pardon the pun) a harmonious one - you should feel relaxed & at ease... not fearsome of the power that lurks within.
My guess is that the Korg sp250 is probably the instrument that is closest to what Greg is seeking... time will tell!
Hurry up & get back to us on this, Greg - the tension is almost killing me!!!
On hearing his original query, it immediately brought to mind the numerous occasions
(in my capacity as a piano tuner) that I have been asked the same question by my clients - many of whom are church-goers themselves with (apparently) the exact same requirements as Greg. (I admit I'm making assumptions here).
Upon seeing instruments such as the Mo8 (remember Greg dismissed 61-notes from the outset) their reaction is, almost without exception, one of bewilderment.
This is no way to go about enjoying your music.
Your relationship with your instrument should be (pardon the pun) a harmonious one - you should feel relaxed & at ease... not fearsome of the power that lurks within.
My guess is that the Korg sp250 is probably the instrument that is closest to what Greg is seeking... time will tell!
Hurry up & get back to us on this, Greg - the tension is almost killing me!!!
Hmm, I'd argue the opposite. I demoed the MO6 recently and found it quite easy. As long as you stay in program or performance modes and stick to switching sounds, you need to know *very little* about the keyboard. Spec-wise, I don't think there's a lot of extra functionality that the MO series has over the MM; as Meisenhower pointed out, most of the difference is in terms of more and better presets, which is never a bad thing.
Not trying to pick a fight here, but if all someone wants to do is play from the stock sounds on a keyboard, they're not going to deal with other things anyway, and I have yet to see a keyboard where moving from sound to sound is difficult. Yes, many older keyboards don't let you pick by category (which just makes it easier, I think). The first keyboard I played was a Roland XP-50, and I had the basics figured out in a couple minutes. I did figure out the sequencer and do a bit of recording later on, but just sticking to the basics wasn't hard.
If people are so scared by the fact that their keyboard *can* do more than they'd want to use it for, they should stick to a stage piano and learn to be content with the small number of sounds they have available to them.
Not trying to pick a fight here, but if all someone wants to do is play from the stock sounds on a keyboard, they're not going to deal with other things anyway, and I have yet to see a keyboard where moving from sound to sound is difficult. Yes, many older keyboards don't let you pick by category (which just makes it easier, I think). The first keyboard I played was a Roland XP-50, and I had the basics figured out in a couple minutes. I did figure out the sequencer and do a bit of recording later on, but just sticking to the basics wasn't hard.
If people are so scared by the fact that their keyboard *can* do more than they'd want to use it for, they should stick to a stage piano and learn to be content with the small number of sounds they have available to them.
If the SP250 is closer to what he's looking for, then it's a totally different ballgame and there are a number of really good choices in that range.
I would agree with Kanthos's statement about getting a stage piano and then then living with the somewhat limited sounds available.
For what it's worth, I also think moving from sound to sound on the Yamaha products are a breeze, and really doesn't have a learning curve associated with it. If you ignore the more "advanced" features you don't need, then you have a much more powerful sonic instrument than a simply stage piano (and I use a stage piano myself, two actually, but for different applications).
If a stage piano is an option, two must sees are the Yamaha CP33 and the Kawai MP5 (both light weight but full graded hammer weighted action) and the other sounds are very good too. Another plus are multiple zone for use as a midi controller (not that it sounds like that is a requirement).
http://www.kawaius.com/main_links/digital/EMI/mp_5.html
http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA...,,CNTID%253D64572%2526CTID%253D205800,00.html
A little more expensive than the Korg SP250, but they're in a totally different class of instrument too (IMHO).
Aren't choices fun?
I would agree with Kanthos's statement about getting a stage piano and then then living with the somewhat limited sounds available.
For what it's worth, I also think moving from sound to sound on the Yamaha products are a breeze, and really doesn't have a learning curve associated with it. If you ignore the more "advanced" features you don't need, then you have a much more powerful sonic instrument than a simply stage piano (and I use a stage piano myself, two actually, but for different applications).
If a stage piano is an option, two must sees are the Yamaha CP33 and the Kawai MP5 (both light weight but full graded hammer weighted action) and the other sounds are very good too. Another plus are multiple zone for use as a midi controller (not that it sounds like that is a requirement).
http://www.kawaius.com/main_links/digital/EMI/mp_5.html
http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA...,,CNTID%253D64572%2526CTID%253D205800,00.html
A little more expensive than the Korg SP250, but they're in a totally different class of instrument too (IMHO).
Aren't choices fun?
Hi Kanthos & Meisenhower I hope you're ok?
Kanthos, I read with interest that you found the Mo6 "quite" easy to operate.
From having read many of your write-ups you and I both know that your knowledge in this department is almost encyclopaedic!
Greg, on the other hand, would appear to be a newcomer to the world of electronic keyboards.
What we've got to bear in mind here is that he entered this forum, as he freely stated, with little or no knowledge in this area, and the purposes for which he intends to use the keyboard seem to me to be fairly basic.
From what he has said so far, it seems that - other than for amusement at home - the keyboard is to be used in his local church only.
I'm not so sure that he, or his fellow church-goers would be particularly concerned with studio-quality sound, or the tricks a keyboard could potentially perform.
What I'm trying to say here is that it's 'horses for courses'.
Your last paragraph, to my mind, is nearer the mark.... which is where Meisenhower's suggestions come into play!
I would fully go along with the Yamaha CP33 but in this part of the world, at least, it is right at the top end of his budget... and of course an amplifier would also need to be purchased.
I am not familiar with Kawai electric pianos, so I wouldn't like to offer any opinions, as they wouldn't be based on prior experience. What I would say, though, is their acoustic pianos are made to a pretty decent standard - conclude from that what you will!
.
Kanthos, I read with interest that you found the Mo6 "quite" easy to operate.
From having read many of your write-ups you and I both know that your knowledge in this department is almost encyclopaedic!
Greg, on the other hand, would appear to be a newcomer to the world of electronic keyboards.
What we've got to bear in mind here is that he entered this forum, as he freely stated, with little or no knowledge in this area, and the purposes for which he intends to use the keyboard seem to me to be fairly basic.
From what he has said so far, it seems that - other than for amusement at home - the keyboard is to be used in his local church only.
I'm not so sure that he, or his fellow church-goers would be particularly concerned with studio-quality sound, or the tricks a keyboard could potentially perform.
What I'm trying to say here is that it's 'horses for courses'.
Your last paragraph, to my mind, is nearer the mark.... which is where Meisenhower's suggestions come into play!
I would fully go along with the Yamaha CP33 but in this part of the world, at least, it is right at the top end of his budget... and of course an amplifier would also need to be purchased.
I am not familiar with Kawai electric pianos, so I wouldn't like to offer any opinions, as they wouldn't be based on prior experience. What I would say, though, is their acoustic pianos are made to a pretty decent standard - conclude from that what you will!
.
I have yet to find a keyboard where the process for live playing is much more than "Turn on the keyboard, pick a sound in a fairly straight-forward manner, and play the keys". I *strongly* suspect people who feel the average workstation keyboard is too difficult either:
a) get scared at the sight of buttons and knobs that they don't understand
b) feel that they need to understand every feature on the keyboard in depth to make it worth having, and don't want to put the time in to learn
c) don't realize that it can take years of work to understand keyboards and synthesis in-depth and get frustrated when it doesn't happen in minutes or hours.
When I was shopping for a keyboard this past December (and ended up buying the Korg TR) and I went into stores to try out various models, I was able to sit down at any keyboard I liked, regardless of manufacturer and my experiences with that brand before, and figure out in a matter of seconds both how to go to the next and previous preset and how to pull up and pick from a list of presets in a category, if the keyboard had that feature. As long as I knew that the keyboard satisfied my tech requirements in some manner (which, from searching for the right things in the manuals, I knew ahead of time - I *didn't* use the manuals to tell me how to pick sounds from a category or switch sounds period), *all* I cared about in store was action and sound. I completely ignored any advanced features and just played it.
Would it be easy to figure out how to operate the sequencer on a Korg or Yamaha in-store without a manual? Maybe not, but I didn't care because I primarily play at church and didn't need to worry about learning extra capabilities until I needed them. Greg is probably in the same position: he wants good sound with a small learning curve, and I can say with certainty that as long as you can ignore things you don't need to use, the very basics of live playing is completely trivial.
I don't believe that anyone capable of learning to play keyboard parts with both hands can't figure out how to switch sounds on any keyboard on the market today. That may be the only thing they care to do, and they may not do it in the best way (i.e. entering the three-digit program number by hand to switch presets instead of reorganizing presets so they're in a logical order), but they can do it.
When it comes to buying a keyboard with a tone generator, the primary decision factor, other than cost vs. budget, should be "Does it make the sounds I want, and how well does it do so compared to the competition", unless you have other very specific factors (i.e. "I can't integrate it into my setup unless it has MIDI THRU as well as MIDI OUT", or "I need a keyboard that supports a switch pedal to increment the current program"). Buying for simplicity will give you just that: something that's simple in use and simple in sound. If that's really all you want, fine; if not, be prepared to master using arrow keys and/or category buttons to pick your sounds, all of which you'll find out in the Quick Start guide that most keyboards nowadays have.
a) get scared at the sight of buttons and knobs that they don't understand
b) feel that they need to understand every feature on the keyboard in depth to make it worth having, and don't want to put the time in to learn
c) don't realize that it can take years of work to understand keyboards and synthesis in-depth and get frustrated when it doesn't happen in minutes or hours.
When I was shopping for a keyboard this past December (and ended up buying the Korg TR) and I went into stores to try out various models, I was able to sit down at any keyboard I liked, regardless of manufacturer and my experiences with that brand before, and figure out in a matter of seconds both how to go to the next and previous preset and how to pull up and pick from a list of presets in a category, if the keyboard had that feature. As long as I knew that the keyboard satisfied my tech requirements in some manner (which, from searching for the right things in the manuals, I knew ahead of time - I *didn't* use the manuals to tell me how to pick sounds from a category or switch sounds period), *all* I cared about in store was action and sound. I completely ignored any advanced features and just played it.
Would it be easy to figure out how to operate the sequencer on a Korg or Yamaha in-store without a manual? Maybe not, but I didn't care because I primarily play at church and didn't need to worry about learning extra capabilities until I needed them. Greg is probably in the same position: he wants good sound with a small learning curve, and I can say with certainty that as long as you can ignore things you don't need to use, the very basics of live playing is completely trivial.
I don't believe that anyone capable of learning to play keyboard parts with both hands can't figure out how to switch sounds on any keyboard on the market today. That may be the only thing they care to do, and they may not do it in the best way (i.e. entering the three-digit program number by hand to switch presets instead of reorganizing presets so they're in a logical order), but they can do it.
When it comes to buying a keyboard with a tone generator, the primary decision factor, other than cost vs. budget, should be "Does it make the sounds I want, and how well does it do so compared to the competition", unless you have other very specific factors (i.e. "I can't integrate it into my setup unless it has MIDI THRU as well as MIDI OUT", or "I need a keyboard that supports a switch pedal to increment the current program"). Buying for simplicity will give you just that: something that's simple in use and simple in sound. If that's really all you want, fine; if not, be prepared to master using arrow keys and/or category buttons to pick your sounds, all of which you'll find out in the Quick Start guide that most keyboards nowadays have.
