Importing Yamaha Sounds into Korg Keyboard & Visa Versa

[ChrisNabil]

Hi guys,

I have been watching a guy on youtube playing the Korg PAX4 & Genos both he has been able to import sounds from different keyboards.

What I would like to know, is say if I bought a Korg PAX4, is there any way of downloading Yamaha sounds online and importing them into the Korg or would I have to actually have both keyboards to do that?

It would be so amazing to have one keyboard and just import a load of sounds from different keyboards. This sounds too good to be true so I am sure it cant be done?

 

[happyrat1]

Chris > if you want to play every synth ever made all you'd have to do is plug into a laptop and start exploring VSTis.

Not so many choices for arranger beats but there are a few out there as well.

As for interchangeable hardware from different manufacturers? In case you haven't noticed, these guys are trying their best to put the other guys out of business. You basically have to wait a couple of decades for the other guys patents to expire.

Gary

 

[Reuben]

You are right - it can't be done. You can use one keyboard to play another's sound via midi cable but there is no commonality between the systems in terms of sound files or operating systems. In fact virtually every keyboard is like this even slightly different models from the same manufacturer. There are a few (like Nord) who release sounds that can be played by a few models but this is the exeption rather than the rule.

 

[ChrisNabil]

Chris > if you want to play every synth ever made all you'd have to do is plug into a laptop and start exploring VSTis.

Not so many choices for arranger beats but there are a few out there as well.

As for interchangeable hardware from different manufacturers? In case you haven't noticed, these guys are trying their best to put the other guys out of business. You basically have to wait a couple of decades for the other guys patents to expire.

Gary

I gotcha Gary!... I was watching this guy

 

[ChrisNabil]

You are right - it can't be done. You can use one keyboard to play another's sound via midi cable but there is no commonality between the systems in terms of sound files or operating systems. In fact virtually every keyboard is like this even slightly different models from the same manufacturer. There are a few (like Nord) who release sounds that can be played by a few models but this is the exeption rather than the rule.

I thought as much... Thank you! I wonder how Kris does it then? ... I posted a clip of him above

 

[happyrat1]

What I think he did was sample the voices of his favorite instruments, and reprogrammed the styles for each machine.

Doable with huge sample memories and LOTS of programming work, but not as simple as a factory import which you are dreaming about.

Take five or ten years and master C++ and inline assembly and reverse engineering of closed formats and you could probably write your own style converter but it would be a fruitless task given the story in the video.

Gary

 

[Reuben]

If your keyboard is capable of sampling then you can playback what you have sampled. The trick is that its never going to sound like the original with multiple velocity layers and timbre changes over the velocity range unless you sample say every 3rd note at at least 6 different velocities - and this will chew up most of your user memory just doing a couple of instruments.

 

[Reuben]

The most widely supported format between various keyboards is the old SoundFont or sf2 format and some keyboards will import them with SOME success but manufacturers have no incentive to support cross-platform sounds because they want you to buy their keyboard.
I mainly use an iPhone or iPad running the bs-16i soundfont hosting app to play sounds with any keyboard and it works quite well.
I also have loads of free soundfonts on my site for anyone to use https://sites.google.com/site/soundfonts4u/

 

[happyrat1]

The most widely supported format between various keyboards is the old SoundFont or sf2 format and some keyboards will import them with SOME success but manufacturers have no incentive to support cross-platform sounds because they want you to buy their keyboard.
I mainly use an iPhone or iPad running the bs-16i soundfont hosting app to play sounds with any keyboard and it works quite well.
I also have loads of free soundfonts on my site for anyone to use https://sites.google.com/site/soundfonts4u/

True dat. The Waldorf Blofeld is a soundfont device. Even so, it took some coaxing to load one properly.

Like I said at the beginning, it's doable with a laptop and VSTi Host.

Gary

 

[ChrisNabil]

Well guys, you have lost me I am able to do some basic programming but that's about my lot! Although, he sure is able to create a dream keyboard!... maybe it's worth knuckling down to learn. Yeah... you know that ain't going to happen

 

[ChrisNabil]

The most widely supported format between various keyboards is the old SoundFont or sf2 format and some keyboards will import them with SOME success but manufacturers have no incentive to support cross-platform sounds because they want you to buy their keyboard.
I mainly use an iPhone or iPad running the bs-16i soundfont hosting app to play sounds with any keyboard and it works quite well.
I also have loads of free soundfonts on my site for anyone to use https://sites.google.com/site/soundfonts4u/

Thanks so much, Reuben!

 

[anotherscott]

Take five or ten years and master C++ and inline assembly and reverse engineering of closed formats and you could probably write your own style converter but it would be a fruitless task given the story in the video.

There are style converters. See post #4 at https://www.keyboardforums.com/threads/transfering-registration-user-files.32647/#post-219983. As for the story in the video (which I only watched a little of), samples are copyrighted as musical recordings, but styles probably don't have the copyright issue. They are not recordings, nor are they compositions, I"m not sure what (if any) copyright could apply.

Well guys, you have lost me I am able to do some basic programming but that's about my lot! Although, he sure is able to create a dream keyboard!... maybe it's worth knuckling down to learn. Yeah... you know that ain't going to happen

As for bringing in sounds from other manufacturer's boards, Reuben basically has that covered, but there are tools made specifically to simplify the task of moving sounds between keyboards (or between keyboard and computer), albeit within limitations that Reuben also touched on. They're not going to sound exactly the same as they did on the original (and the more faithful you want to get, the more the required memory can quickly grow to unmanageable proportions). But you can often get very usable approximations of sounds from other boards (or VSTs) using tools like SampleRobot, Samplit, Mainstage Auto Sampler, Extreme Sample Converter, or the tools from Chicken Systems (some are Mac, some are PC, some are cross-platform). It's a handy way to, for example, have the basic sounds you want from numerous sources in the one or two keyboards you may be performing with. (The board you're loading the sounds into does have to be one that has the ability to have new samples loaded into it, of course.) It does take some effort, but you by no means need to become a programmer. And there is no copyright issue if you own the source keyboard/VST and are sampling for your own use (hence the legality of all those tools).

Depending on the sound you're trying to "transfer," you may quickly get very acceptable results, or it could be quite a challenge. A piano sound, for example will be difficult, due to things like multiple velocity samples, long gradual decay, and any implementation of sympathetic resonances. Sounds that evolve over time are likewise difficult... in general, you'll want to turn off most effects and modulations and recreate those things on the other side. OTOH, many sounds can effectively come over quite easily. Ones that either quickly decay to nothingness or quickly decay to an unchanging looped sound are the easiest to work with, especially if they have few if any velocity variations.

 

[ChrisNabil]

anotherscott, Thank you for your in-depth reply. I pretty much thought that loading samples from other keyboards into one wasn't a thing. It would almost negate having more than one keyboard and that just doesn't happen. Although I have an interest in building or tweaking sounds transferring sounds in the way Kris does seems far beyond anything I would be capable of and quite frankly I have too much of a busy life to have the time to learn or the inclination.

I am just waiting for my Korg Nautilus 88 Key that was supposed to be delivered today but now says "delayed"...typical!

I was all about Yamaha before, including studio monitors (HS8s) Now I have upgraded to some Focal Shapes 65's so I have a lot to delve into at the moment. Then... a second board like the Korg PA4X in a few months.

 

[Biggles]

Chris

Not specifically related to your query but with Webinar by Korg UK staff may help at some point in time.

Sampling with Korg Pa arrangers - Crowdcast

Join Adam and Luke as they show you everything you need to know about sampling with the Korg Pa series of keyboards.

www.crowdcast.io

BTW
The guy in the video you posted is Kris Nicholson, imo one of the most knowledgable guys there is, hunt out his video on creating Korg Styles from scratch, it is well worth watching.

 

[ChrisNabil]

Thanks, and thanks Biggles. Yes, I have been watching a few of his vids and he is quite amazing, a great pianist too.

 

[ChrisNabil]

Reuben - Through the link you sent to your site I ended up watching a few of your youtube clips. Very impressed, you got a sub and I look forward to delving deeper when my Keyboard(s) arrive.

 

[Biggles]

Reuben’s samples for the Korg Pa are excellent, imo better sounding than the Italian Grand that seems to be their flagship acoustic piano.

I used his samples on my Pa.

Hat’s off to Reuben for providing them and even more so as they are foc.

 

[Global Sound]

contact me on (e-mail address removed)

i will explain how you can use all sounds on one KB!
Best Reg

 

[ClassicalMan]

There are style converters. See post #4 at https://www.keyboardforums.com/threads/transfering-registration-user-files.32647/#post-219983. As for the story in the video (which I only watched a little of), samples are copyrighted as musical recordings, but styles probably don't have the copyright issue. They are not recordings, nor are they compositions, I"m not sure what (if any) copyright could apply.


As for bringing in sounds from other manufacturer's boards, Reuben basically has that covered, but there are tools made specifically to simplify the task of moving sounds between keyboards (or between keyboard and computer), albeit within limitations that Reuben also touched on. They're not going to sound exactly the same as they did on the original (and the more faithful you want to get, the more the required memory can quickly grow to unmanageable proportions). But you can often get very usable approximations of sounds from other boards (or VSTs) using tools like SampleRobot, Samplit, Mainstage Auto Sampler, Extreme Sample Converter, or the tools from Chicken Systems (some are Mac, some are PC, some are cross-platform). It's a handy way to, for example, have the basic sounds you want from numerous sources in the one or two keyboards you may be performing with. (The board you're loading the sounds into does have to be one that has the ability to have new samples loaded into it, of course.) It does take some effort, but you by no means need to become a programmer. And there is no copyright issue if you own the source keyboard/VST and are sampling for your own use (hence the legality of all those tools).

Depending on the sound you're trying to "transfer," you may quickly get very acceptable results, or it could be quite a challenge. A piano sound, for example will be difficult, due to things like multiple velocity samples, long gradual decay, and any implementation of sympathetic resonances. Sounds that evolve over time are likewise difficult... in general, you'll want to turn off most effects and modulations and recreate those things on the other side. OTOH, many sounds can effectively come over quite easily. Ones that either quickly decay to nothingness or quickly decay to an unchanging looped sound are the easiest to work with, especially if they have few if any velocity variations.

That sounds like the real stuff! Do any of those work by sampling each note in a patch on different velocities? There used to be some utillities with names like "sound stealer" or "patch thief" -- cant' remember the exact monikers and haven't been able to turn any up via google in years. I've sometimes thought of maybe creating my own stealer in the form a of a MIDI track that would do the above thing on source instruments, though how to simultaneously enter and store the resulting data on disk (as a soundfont for easy use I have no idea of.

 

[anotherscott]

Do any of those work by sampling each note in a patch on different velocities?

Yes, everything I mentioned can do that.