Looking for a keyboard that sends auto accompaniment MIDI sections separately

Discussion in 'MIDI' started by Isaias, Jul 9, 2018.

  1. Isaias

    Isaias

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    Hi

    I am looking for a cheap keyboard option that sends auto accompaniment MIDI signals separately when I am playing, that is, rhythm 1 on one channel, bass on another channel, rhythm 2 on another channel, chord 1 on another, etc. I
    I would like the self-accompaniment to be played in the DAW (Logic Pro X) and not on the keyboard, for example: only the MIDI signal of rhythm 1 should be sent in to drums software instrument track, and not the signal of bass and chord 1, and chord 2 and so on.

    I have the YAMAHA PSR 510, but it sends all the auto accompaniment through the same channel.
    The point is that I like auto accompaniment function, but I feel that the sounds are not very realistic, the sounds MIDI software instruments of logic Pro X are more realistic.

    Any Suggestion?
     
    Isaias, Jul 9, 2018
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  2. Isaias

    SeaGtGruff I meant to play that note! Moderator

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    I'm not sure, but I think the PSR-510 may actually do what you want as far as sending the different parts of the style on separate MIDI channels; you just need to make sure that the DAW is separating the MIDI data into different tracks based on the MIDI channels.

    And then you can send a given MIDI channel to a virtual instrument in the DAW if you want, or send it back to the keyboard to be played if you want to use the keyboard's default voice from the style.

    Let me check the manual for the PSR-510 to see what options it has.
     
    SeaGtGruff, Jul 9, 2018
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  3. Isaias

    happyrat1 Destroyer of Eardrums!!!

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    The Casio CTK and WK line can output accompaniment on multiple channels. Possibly the new CTX line as well but I cannot speak for those.

    Gary ;)
     
    happyrat1, Jul 9, 2018
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  4. Isaias

    Isaias

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    Thank you very much.

    I already tried to configure the DAW so that each track receives MIDI data from a single MIDI channel, but still receives all the auto accompaniment, maybe my PSR510 is very old and is failing, im not sure

    regards
     
    Isaias, Jul 9, 2018
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  5. Isaias

    Isaias

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    Hi Gary

    I will consider those options, the ctk 4400 manual says that it sends the auto accompaniment, I hope that it really send auto accompaniment MIDI data in separate channels, I would like to be sure of that before making the investment

    Thanks a lot
     
    Isaias, Jul 9, 2018
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  6. Isaias

    happyrat1 Destroyer of Eardrums!!!

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    Try phoning up or emailing Casio tech support and ask them. They'll be able to give you a definitive answer.

    Gary ;)
     
    happyrat1, Jul 9, 2018
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  7. Isaias

    SeaGtGruff I meant to play that note! Moderator

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    Based on what the Owner's Manual says, the accompaniment data should be getting broadcast on separate channels-- 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, and 16, with channel 9 being optional depending on whether you want the Rhythm 1 and Rhythm 2 parts to be on a combined channel (10) or two separate channels (9 and 10).

    How do you have the MIDI send settings set up on the PSR-510?

    What channels are used for the Left and Right parts?

    What are the Local Control and MIDI Output settings for the Left and Right parts?

    Which channel is Logic Pro receiving the style data on?

    By the way, I just had a thought or realization. Some DAWs-- such as Cubase, and probably many others-- will import or receive MIDI data from a specific 16-channel MIDI port as a single MIDI track, but the data is still on separate MIDI channels inside this track. I don't know if that's what Logic Pro is doing, but it may well be. It's the DAW equivalent of a "type 0" MIDI file, in which the data for all 16 MIDI channels are contained in a single "track." The channel data-- Note events, Pitch Bend events, Control Change events, etc.-- still maintain the correct MIDI channels embedded inside them, even though they're displayed on a single track.

    If this is what is happening, the DAW probably has a function which lets you separate or explode the track into the separate MIDI channels-- on Cubase it's called "dissolve."

    EDIT: PS -- If this is indeed what the problem is, buying a new keyboard probably won't make the "problem" go away, since the issue is on the DAW side and isn't really a "problem" per se (although the first time I ran into it in Cubase I definitely thought of it as a big, bad, ugly, glaring problem-- until I finally grasped what Cubase was doing and how to use the dissolve function to undo it).

    EDIT #2: But even if this is the "problem" and you can easily separate the individual channels into their own tracks with a function in Logic Pro, you still might want to look into buying a newer keyboard. The PSR-510 has some nice features-- and if it's still working great and you have the room for it, you might want to hang onto it-- but it's pretty dated in comparison to what's available today. Besides, it's always a lot of fun to buy yourself a new toy... ahem, I mean, a new highly sophisticated electronic tool for getting important musical work done.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
    SeaGtGruff, Jul 9, 2018
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  8. Isaias

    SeaGtGruff I meant to play that note! Moderator

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    I'm looking at the User Manual for Logic Pro 9, and I believe that the instructions on how to separate a track's MIDI events by their channels are given in the section called "Demixing MIDI Regions." It says the following:

    I don't know what page the same information is in the User Manual for Logic Pro X, but I imagine the steps for doing this shouldn't have changed.

    I do know that at first I had trouble using Cubase's "dissolve" function due to not having properly selected the region I wanted to dissolve; I think I just clicked on the track thinking that this would select everything in it, but it didn't. So make sure you don't just highlight the track; you need to actually select everything in the track before you try to separate it.

    Also, if you have eight tracks that were supposed to be for the individual channels of the auto accompaniment, but they all ended up containing all of the channels of the accompaniment, be sure to delete all superfluous or duplicate tracks, leaving just one track, before you separate it by its channels.
     
    SeaGtGruff, Jul 9, 2018
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  9. Isaias

    Isaias

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    Ok, Thank you so much
     
    Isaias, Jul 10, 2018
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  10. Isaias

    usalabs

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    I have the Casio WK-500 and it transmits accompaniment data on 7 channels, sometimes 8 depending on the instruments used for intro and ending,,, but basically the basic rhythm uses channels 10, 11,12,13,14,15,16, sometimes channel 9, but not all of them are used simultaneously, you will need to set your DAW to receive on those channels not set them to omni,,, the draw back to that is,,,, the rhythm data does not contain the actual instrument patches, so any data sent to the DAW will use whatever instrument is assigned to those channels in the DAW, with exception to channel 10 which is drums only.
     
    usalabs, Aug 14, 2018
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  11. Isaias

    usalabs

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    It sounds like you have all those 16 channels set to omni, which will receive MIDI data on all 16 channels, and because the rhythm data uses channels 10 to 16 it sounds like it's all on one channel,,,, you will need to set the input to each track from 10 to 16 to 10 to 16 respectively, EG track 10 = input MIDI track 10, on my DAW (Cakewalk Sonar X3), the track input shows a selection of CASIO-USB-1.......16.
     
    usalabs, Aug 14, 2018
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  12. Isaias

    Isaias

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    Im using Logic Pro X for mac, It has an option to separate MIDI information for each track, but I do not know how to do what you said in logic, I'm going to try, anyway, thank you very much.

    Maybe my PSR510 workstation is very obsolete or damaged, I will consider getting the casio. Thank you
     
    Isaias, Aug 14, 2018
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  13. Isaias

    usalabs

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    Sorry I can't help you with Logic Pro X for the mac.

    Dang! after looking at the manual for Logic Pro X, I'm glad I'm using Windows Cakewalk, it's far, far to complicated to even think about how Logic Pro even works, when it says to use the environment to do this and that with MIDI, but in Windows all I have to do on a MIDI track is just click MIDI In = <MIDI port> then after inserting a VSTi, I just click on the track's MIDI out = VSTi port and done. TBH, IMO, dump Apple, and consider using Windows, at least the DAW's are much more easier to use :)
     
    usalabs, Aug 14, 2018
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  14. Isaias

    SeaGtGruff I meant to play that note! Moderator

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    Did you see my post about how to "demix" a MIDI track in Logic Pro?

    https://www.keyboardforums.com/thre...t-midi-sections-separately.29171/#post-193669

    That won't help with preventing it from happening in the first place-- it's more an "after the fact" solution-- so it might not be the ideal solution you're looking for, although it's probably going to be the necessary solution if you import a MIDI file into the DAW, at least if it's a "type 0" MIDI file (which is the format Yamaha saves in).

    You shouldn't have to get rid of your Apple computer just to get a different DAW, because these days most major DAWs are available for Windows, macOS, and Linux. On the other hand, my favorite DAW-- Acoustica Mixcraft-- is strictly available for Windows only.
     
    SeaGtGruff, Aug 14, 2018
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