Noob Tinkler alert!

[Don McCull]

Hi All,
I'm fed up with getting sales pitches from the usual annoying sites (a river, some nice Germans etc, we all know who they are!) when I search for questions so I have descended upon your forum with eager anticipation of cheerful assistance from fellow tinklers who have been there!
I run a Kurzweil SPS4-8 (great all rounder) and a Roland FA-06 (cheery wee chap) for live, and I have NI Komplete on my Studio PC.
Current issue, I don't connect the keyboard at the moment by MIDI as I prefer to use them for different sounds. What is the best way (preferably cheap as I'm Scots lol) to midi them but have them generally off but quickly and easily connected without poking buttons on my Kurzweil (88 keys wins as master role)?

 

[Fred Coulter]

How do you want to MIDI them? Do you want a simple one way connection with one keyboard controlling the other one? Or do you want to be able to use either keyboard to control the other at any time? Are you talking live, or in the studio? Do you want your computer in the mix? (This is sounding more like a porn site.)

I can't think of any way to avoid pushing buttons, but you do that to change sounds. I think your goal would be to minimize the button pushing.

 

[Becky]

Welcome to the forum!

 

[Don McCull]

happy to be here!

 

[SeaGtGruff]

Both keyboards have type B USB ports, so the simplest and least expensive way to connect them to a computer will be with a pair of standard USB cables. Both keyboards would be able to send or receive MIDI with the computer, as well as send or receive MIDI with each other via the computer.

If you won't be moving the keyboards then you can just leave them connected all the time, because even though they'll show up as USB/MIDI devices on the computer when you turn them on, you'll still need to select them in any software if you want to use them-- i.e., simply having them connected won't cause any problems. And you should be able to send setup information from a DAW to the keyboards for selecting preset or user patches, including turning the keyboards' Local Control on or off remotely as desired, not to mention routing one or both keyboards to one or more virtual instruments.

If you do need to connect and disconnect them regularly, you might want to go a different route, as I've read that if you put a lot of wear and tear on a type B USB port from constantly plugging in and unplugging a cable, the port can wear out (or loosen up?) to the point where it becomes difficult to get and keep a reliable connection. I think part of the problem comes from the shape of the cable itself-- i.e., a straight plug versus one that has a 90-degree L shape-- because (as I understand it) the weight of the cable can cause the connection to get broken if the port isn't "tight" enough to hold the plug snugly. I might add that I've never run into this problem myself, so I don't know how common it is, only that I've seen people mention it before.

Of course, if you go with standard MIDI connections then you'll need some sort of USB-MIDI interface. The best option might be to get a USB audio interface that has a nice sound card plus at least two sets of MIDI In/Out ports. You can keep the interface plugged into the computer all the time, and just connect/disconnect the keyboards to the interface via MIDI cables as needed. I take it that the very nature of MIDI connections-- i.e., the physical design, five pins that fit into five holes-- makes for a connection that's less subject to the "loosening up" issue that can occur with type B USB ports.

 

[Don McCull]

Thanks mate really good advice very much appreciated, I'd a horrible feeling a computer would be involved and you confirm that I need to invest more hard earned! I am a live player and my only laptop is old and under spec so was hoping there is a hardware solution not involving a computer that I can use to quickly alter set up. I do use a static PC at home and use the FA-06 (unless I need 88) to control Cubase along with NI Komplete. in UK a suitable laptop to run Cubase and Komplete is £1000 roughly $1250.
Despite my IT support of windows systems background MIDI is a mystery I am slowly getting to grips with. I could straight MIDI-cable them together but don't want them layering all the time and my experience of older keyboards is that you change sound on one it changes the other board's setting. Kinda puts you off! I'm in a Pub covers band and find guitarists are impatient with keyboardists fiddling around for ages between songs! (I'm also a bassist so know the feeling lol)

 

[SeaGtGruff]

Okay, wait, I'm not sure I've understood your original question-- I saw the reference to NI Komplete on your studio PC and thought you wanted to know about connecting the two keyboards to the PC. If you just want to connect them together for a live onstage gig then it might be that all you need to do is connect them together via MIDI cables-- from MIDI In on the first keyboard to MIDI Out on the second keyboard, and from MIDI Out on the first keyboard to MIDI In on the second keyboard. Then it's a question of what kind of MIDI messages you can send from one keyboard to the other, and what BankSelect/ProgramChange values you need to send from the keyboard you're using as the controller (master) to the keyboard that's being controlled (slave)-- unless you want to just change voices on the slave keyboard manually.

 

[Don McCull]

Thanks. Sorry for confusing things- it's my greatest skill unfortunately. You have confirmed poking buttons endlessly is the way to go. The Kurzweil SPS4-8 (same engine controls as SP4-7, SP4-8 but with speakers) is very capable and easy access to sounds and setups and although sold as a Piano is really a weighted workstation.
I will just have to find the time and space to do full set up in my wee house to play about, thought I'd check out any shortcuts first! I will likely get a Laptop with Ableton Live - not sure if Cubase the best live controller. More research will follow
Much obliged.

 

[Don McCull]

How do you want to MIDI them? Do you want a simple one way connection with one keyboard controlling the other one? Or do you want to be able to use either keyboard to control the other at any time? Are you talking live, or in the studio? Do you want your computer in the mix? (This is sounding more like a porn site.)

I can't think of any way to avoid pushing buttons, but you do that to change sounds. I think your goal would be to minimize the button pushing.

Thanks Fred, for some reason I have only just seen your post.
You are right. Basically at the moment I've been using the Kurz SPS4-8 as sole workstation for mostly organ and piano (rock covers band) but the band requested I use the FA-06 too and so am using independently adequately. I do have the Midi 5-pin DIN cable, and am looking at ways to expand and improve my usage of them. SeaGtGruff has given me food for future thought for when I can get a Laptop. As live players know guitarist and Singer patience is short!
Is Ableton Live the appropriate software for quick set-up selection? I do have Cubase 8.5 pro seems a bit clunky for this I think.
Play time (if the Missus lets me)

 

[SeaGtGruff]

Regarding Cubase versus Live, one thing you should be aware of is that Live does not let you work with SysEx messages, but Cubase does.

Now, depending on what you want to do, you might not need to use SysEx messages at all. However, SysEx is often used by companies for messages that don't have any equivalent standard MIDI messages-- e.g., Yamaha keyboards use SysEx messages for setting the Reverb Type, Chorus Type, and DSP Effect Type, along with many, many other parameters. So you might want to look at the MIDI references for your keyboards to see what parameters can be controlled only via SysEx messages, in case it turns out that you'll want to be able to include SysEx messages in your MIDI data.

If you'd like to be able to control your two keyboards with your computer, one program that you might want to check out is Bome MIDI Translator Pro. I don't have it, myself (I do have the free "lite" version, although I haven't tackled learning it yet), but whenever I see professional keyboardists ask about software for controlling their keyboard setups, Bome MIDI Translator Pro invariably gets recommended.

 

[Fred Coulter]

For live playing, if you just want to fatten a sound beyond what a single keyboard can do, connect the MIDI out of the keyboard your playing to the MIDI in of the other keyboard. Generally that will, by itself, mean that everything you play on one keyboard sounds through both. To turn it off, you'd need to create a program on one of the two keyboards that either turns off the MIDI out (if it's the keyboard you're playing) or the MIDI in (if it's the slave).

But that's the beginning of what you can do with MIDI in a live setting. It really matters what you want to do as to whether it's worth it. (Now a days, a lot of keyboards are capable of remarkable fatness without adding a second keyboard to the mix.) A different setup would be if you want two different sounds from your main keyboard that the other keyboard can't make. In that case, the connection would be from the second keyboard's MIDI out to the first keyboard's MIDI in, and the second keyboard set to send on channel 2. Then your main keyboard would have a program to play one sound on channel 1 (the local keyboard) and the second sound on channel 2 (played by the other keyboard).

A third possibility is to have a sequencer built into one of the two keyboards playing some sounds on one keyboard and some sounds on the other keyboard.

So the first thing you need to figure out is what you want the MIDI connection to do.

 

[Don McCull]

Thanks folks. I'll save up for a Laptop in future and use my Cubase! I can bring Komplete into play then too! Meantime, independent works well enough. My current crew don't need anything fancy.