RD-300NX won't react to program change messages.


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My RD-300nx will not respond to midi program changes even though I've checked the global midi receive channel. It will respond to note on messages but not program changes. It must be fairly similar to the 700/800's so any ideas? It's driving me mad!
 

SeaGtGruff

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When you send Note messages, do they use the sounds you’ve chosen with the Program Change messages?

I haven’t glanced at the manual yet, but some keyboards have one or more “MIDI song parts” that are used for playing incoming MIDI messages, and which don’t affect the “keyboard parts” that are used for playing directly on the keyboard.

Such keyboards may or may not have settings that let you directly control the keyboard parts with incoming MIDI messages by assigning specific incoming MIDI channels to specific keyboard parts.
 
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happyrat1

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Check what bank select method you are sending to the keyboard. There are usually 4 types to choose from. Roland usually uses the Controller 32 Method.

Gary ;)
 

SeaGtGruff

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Okay, I took a quick glance at the manuals, but not in depth enough yet to be certain about the various parts and how they’re configured.

Page 79 of the Owners Manual says you can use incoming MIDI messages to select Live Sets and Tones, so I’m guessing it should work as long as you’re sending the correct Bank Select and Program Change values as given in the Data List or “patch list” document.

But I haven’t yet looked at the information on the parts that are used for layering and splitting different sounds, and what connections can be made between the incoming MIDI channels and the various layer/split parts.

I did see in the MIDI Implementation document where it mentioned some “System Rx” or receive settings, so you might need to check whether the keyboard is set to ignore incoming Bank Select and Program Change messages.

By the way, what are you using to send MIDI to the keyboard? The reason I ask is because the worst-case scenario would be if there are no settings which let you control the keyboard parts with incoming MIDI, as is the case with my entry-level Yamaha keyboards. Judging by my quick glances at the documentation, I doubt that this is the case, but if it is then you should still be able to achieve what you’re wanting to do by turning off Local Control and using MIDI Thru with your external hardware or software, as shown in the picture on page 78 of the Owners Manual. That’s the method I use with my entry-level Yamahas. I’m doubtful that you’ll need to do that, but if all else fails then you could always fall back on that method.
 
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I am using OnSong on an ipad which sits in a Behringer iStudio dock. It's sending note on on midi channel (set as page 79 says) but it will just not react to program changes as the manual says it should. It's vital that the ipad controls the piano program changes on stage as it is a a very fiddly job on the RD-300. My first keyboard was a Jupiter 8 and I've been an advocate of Roland for nearly 40 years but I don't think I will ever buy Roland again. It's ridiculous that something so simple is so hard to acheive, the manual is poor, and when I called Roland UK today they said they could't help because it was made in 2012!!!!!
 
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Check what bank select method you are sending to the keyboard. There are usually 4 types to choose from. Roland usually uses the Controller 32 Method.

Gary ;)
Bank select method? I'm using OnSong on an ipad in a Behringer iStudio dock. OnSong gives me Bank MSB 1-128 and Bank LSB 1-128 options but nowhere in the Roland manual does it say anything about this.
 
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Okay, I took a quick glance at the manuals, but not in depth enough yet to be certain about the various parts and how they’re configured.

Page 79 of the Owners Manual says you can use incoming MIDI messages to select Live Sets and Tones, so I’m guessing it should work as long as you’re sending the correct Bank Select and Program Change values as given in the Data List or “patch list” document.

But I haven’t yet looked at the information on the parts that are used for layering and splitting different sounds, and what connections can be made between the incoming MIDI channels and the various layer/split parts.

I did see in the MIDI Implementation document where it mentioned some “System Rx” or receive settings, so you might need to check whether the keyboard is set to ignore incoming Bank Select and Program Change messages.

By the way, what are you using to send MIDI to the keyboard? The reason I ask is because the worst-case scenario would be if there are no settings which let you control the keyboard parts with incoming MIDI, as is the case with my entry-level Yamaha keyboards. Judging by my quick glances at the documentation, I doubt that this is the case, but if it is then you should still be able to achieve what you’re wanting to do by turning off Local Control and using MIDI Thru with your external hardware or software, as shown in the picture on page 78 of the Owners Manual. That’s the method I use with my entry-level Yamahas. I’m doubtful that you’ll need to do that, but if all else fails then you could always fall back on that method.
How do I know what bank select to choose? OnSong gives me Bank MSB 1-128 and Bank LSB 1-128 options but nowhere in the Roland manual does it say anything about this.
 
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SeaGtGruff

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One thing to be aware of-- you said OnSong lets you choose Bank Select MSB 1-128 and Bank Select LSB 1-128, and I assume it also has Program Change 1-128.

The numeric values used in the actual MIDI messages are always 0-127, because any value over 127 (i.e., 128-255) will have bit 7 of the data byte set to "on" (or binary "1"), and MIDI uses bit 7 as a status flag except in very specific exceptions.

However, the MMA (or MIDI Manufacturers Association) frequently lists the MIDI Program Numbers as 1-128, even though they are always encoded in MIDI messages as 0-127.

There is no reliable consistency in printed material as far as whether the Program Numbers are listed as 0-127 or as 1-128. For example, Yamaha normally lists their Program Numbers as 1-128, although the data lists for older Yamaha models may use 0-127; whereas Casio normally lists their Program Numbers as 0-127.

Since there's no consistency between manufacturers-- or even between all models past and present that have been produced by a given manufacturer-- you just have to check the data list for a given keyboard to determine which numbering scheme it uses. To do this, look at the Program Number (or Program Change value) which is listed for the Acoustic Grand Piano sound. If it's listed as Program 0 (not Voice 0 or Tone 0, since the Voice Number or Tone Number is not the same thing as the Program Number), then the data list is showing Program Change values of 0-127. But if it's listed as Program 1, then the data list is probably showing Program Change values of 1-128, although you should verify this by scanning the rest of the sounds to see if any of them are listed with Program Numbers of 0 or 128. Basically, if any of them use a Program Number of 0 then the data list is using the 0-127 numbering scheme; whereas if any of them use a Program Number of 128 then the data list is using the 1-128 numbering scheme.

Bank Select MSB and LSB values are almost always shown in keyboard data lists in accordance with the 0-127 numbering scheme-- at least, I don't think I've ever seen a keyboard data list that used the 1-128 numbering scheme for the Bank Select MSB and LSB.

MIDI software is another story. Some software uses 0-127 for the Bank Select MSB and LSB as well as for the Program Change, whereas other software uses 1-128 for these. I don't remember ever seeing any software that uses 0-127 for Bank Select and 1-128 for Program Change, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were. Note that some software might let you choose which numbering scheme you want to use, so that you can set it to match whichever numbering scheme(s) your keyboard manufacturer uses in their data list. Also, note that some software may show the Bank Select as a single value ranging either from 0-16383 or from 1-16384 (i.e., where the 7-bit MSB and LSB values have been combined into a single 14-bit Bank Number).

The lack of any consistency is absolutely crazy in my opinion, because it's almost like the people who make MIDI hardware and software are trying to drive us mad-- or perhaps trying to ensure that the only way you can get your MIDI hardware and software set up the way you want it to work is by hiring some outrageously-expensive high-falutin "MMA-Certified MIDI Technical Specialist" to do it for you.

Anyway, I can see by the RD-300NX Data List that the Program Change values are listed according to the 1-128 numbering scheme (see the PC values listed for "Concert Grand" on page 3, and for "Bandoneon" on page 4), whereas the Bank Select MSB and LSB values are listed according to the 0-127 numbering scheme.

This means that if OnSong is asking for Bank Select MSB and LSB values of 1-128, you'll need to add 1 to the MSB and LSB values which are shown in the RD-300NX Data List. On the other hand, if OnSong is also asking for Program Change values of 1-128, you can just use the PC values which are shown in the RD-300NX Data List without having to adjust them.
 

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