Want a 'fun' weighted board...

[Kaneda]

I'm looking for a 'fun' board with 88 weighted keys, basically.

The why, how etc. has been discussed here but I thought it'd be better to continue in a new thread without further hijacking the other thread...

So, here goes. Basically, selling my MP11SE and looking for a 'fun' replacement with good weighted action and lots of features.
Shortlist up till now :

Affordable:
- Roland FA08
- Yamaha MODX8
- Korg Krome EX 88

Too expensive (but considering nonetheless) :
- Roland Fantom 8
- Yamaha Montage 8
- Korg Kronos 88/Nautilus 88

Also looking at MIDI controllers to use with a DAW (Studiologic SL Grand, NI Komplete Kontrol S88, Arturia Keylab MKII, etc) but not really too keen on those.
I'm continuing to watch various videos and tutorials on all boards. Favourites for the moment are the FA08 and MODX8.

All suggestions welcome, though...

 

[Biggles]

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Close call between the three.

It sort of pains me to say but the MODX could well be in prime position.

 

[anotherscott]

Of the three, here's one factor for why I think Yamaha sounds best in terms of its sampled sounds... MODX has all the exact same sounds as the much higher priced Montage. Korg's Krome doesn't have anywhere near the same sound set as a Kronos, Roland's FA doesn't have anywhere near the same sound set as a Fantom (or the Integra, which was their top of the line sound set when the FA came out)... these companies have basically never put the same sound set in their lower end models as they put in their higher end models. Yamaha is unusual in this respect, in having moderately priced boards that have the same sound set as their pricier boards.

(When you leave the realm of sampled sounds, though, there are other differences. MODX (like Montage) has an FM sound engine; Roland has their SuperNATURAL stuff.)

 

[Biggles]

In an Anderton’s video the Yamaha Sales guy talks about the sampled sounds and their FM engine. Sampled sounds have a 128 note Polyphony and the FM engine has 96 so with the right combination of layered sounds the keyboard Polyphony is right up there with a quality DP

OMG I am doing a Yamaha sales pitch.

 

[Kaneda]

I also believe the MODX8 is the best value for money in the mid-range.
And when talking about value for money, and also considering the lower end boards, we can even throw in the MX88 (and also the Kross 2 88, for that matter)
They all have a huge range of beautiful sounds, they're 'modern' boards with audio over USB, and for playing with sounds and arps and all that, they seem like fun. I messed around a bit with the free FM Essentials app which goes with the MX series, and it really is quite fun.
MODX8 incorporates all that and much much more, plus it has a nice touch screen and more hands-on controls, whereas the MX is quite barren and has a tiny monochrome LCD screen. Same action, though.
Korg also has some nice apps, Module, Gadget, etc. so the Kross 2 88 could still sway me over (again).
And, even though both the MX and Kross have small displays, maybe that woulnd't matter too much since I'm planning on throwing my iMac and a DAW into the mix.
Just thinking out loud.

FA08, Krome EX88, Juno DS88... they're nice but I consider them to be 'old(er) tech'. The FA and Juno DS have been around since 2014 if I'm not mistaken, the Krome EX is from 2019 but it's basically a 2012 Krome with a new wrapper (they couldn't even be bothered to put audio over USB in...)
And I'm not considering the high-end options anymore (Montage, Fantom, Kronos/Nautilus). After all, I'm just an amateur, and a novice, really, when it comes to synths and workstations. Let's say it's a case of the cobbler sticking to his last...

But for the moment, have my eyes set on the MODX8, and I'm in the process of gathering more information about it. I can't really find any true negatives about it on the net (same with the Kross 2 88 and the MX88). And that's a good thing because I tend to forget about the positives altogether when there are too many negatives

 

[Biggles]

We will look forward to your unboxing video

 

[Kaneda]

We will look forward to your unboxing video

Be careful what you wish for...

 

[Kaneda]

Quick question : can you connect an iOS device and a Mac at the same time via USB , using a hub ? Will both work simultaneously ?
For example, let's say you have an app on iOS that gives you certain virtual instruments, but you have you DAW on the Mac.
Could one, in theory, use those sounds from the iOS device in the DAW on the Mac ?

Complicated explanation for a simple probleme. But is there a simple solution ?
Not a deal breaker, but would be nice if it worked...

 

[Biggles]

Via a multi in/out MIDI hub of some kind, the problem being the inclusion of multiple USB connectivity but there is a way round this.

Your iPad would likely need an iRig unit that goes from Lightning (or what ever your iPad has) to a pair of DIN type MIDI plugs.

Then the MIDI hub would have multiple MIDI in/out sockets

Checkout Steinberg/Behringer/iRig/Focusrite etc

 

[anotherscott]

Korg also has some nice apps, Module, Gadget, etc. so the Kross 2 88 could still sway me over (again).

Those Korg apps are available by themselves and work just fine with a MODX or FA.

And, even though both the MX and Kross have small displays, maybe that woulnd't matter too much since I'm planning on throwing my iMac and a DAW into the mix.
Just thinking out loud.

The iMac becomes a screen substitute when using these board's editors (or using a DAW instead of the Korg's on-board sequencer), but you can't use the iMac's display to make on-board navigation easier, for things like patch selection.

Quick question : can you connect an iOS device and a Mac at the same time via USB , using a hub ? Will both work simultaneously ?
For example, let's say you have an app on iOS that gives you certain virtual instruments, but you have you DAW on the Mac.
Could one, in theory, use those sounds from the iOS device in the DAW on the Mac ?

I don't see why you would need a hub, unless you don't have two available USB ports on your Mac. Normally, I think you would just connect the iPad to one of your computer's USB ports, connect your MIDI keyboard to another, and use your software to route things the way you want. But this isn't anything I've done.

 

[Kaneda]

Well, I’ve been thinking.
If I’m truthful to myself, I don’t believe I have what It takes to delve deep into the world of sound creation. What I meant by ‘fun’ initially is what it should exactly be : fun, nothing more. In other words, take a few moments of my day, sit down at my novice studio desk and basically muck around a bit with a music keyboard and my iMac and/or iPad.
I still have a pair of iLoud MicroMonitor speakers, and they will most certainly be perfect for this setup. So as much as I’d like to have it, I think the MODX8 will be a bit too much for me. Not that I’m dumb, but it’s unlikely that I will have the time needed to fully learn and appreciate the beast.

So, better not spend too much money. I was already looking at studio furniture, but the prices soon made me look elsewhere. And I got creative, and found what I needed at Ikea.
As for the board, I’ll probably go for the MX88. Good enough keybed (better than the one in the Kross 2 88) and really good sounds (to my untrained ear, anyway).
The free FM Essentials app really seems like a lot of fun (there’s that word again) and that’s more or less where my question about the Midi hub came from.
You connect an iOS device to the MX via USB to unlock all the sounds in the app, which can also be controlled with the knobs on the MX. But if my iPad is already connected to the USB to computer port, how will I connect my iMac ?
So, the problem is not a lack of USB ports on the iMac, but on the MX.
A MIDI hub might solve this, but how to set this up, I don’t know. Perhaps connect the MX, the iPad and the iMac to a USB hub, and MIDI will somehow do its magic and let me use everything at once, i.e. use Garageband or any other DAW on the Mac and control FM essentials via the MX on the iPad.

In my search for the answer, I found this :

synth-login

For Yamaha synthesizer, workstation and stage piano owners seeking tips, sound libraries, support and a good place to hang out, yamahasynth.com is a user community that connects users with Yamaha unlike unofficial sites, yamahasynth.com has the Baddest Mister in town!

www.yamahasynth.com

Not exactly the same as my conundrum but interesting, nonetheless. Doesn't solve my problem, though.
I guess, if all that MIDI over USB magic shouldn’t work, the solution would be to simply use Garageband or Cubasis (instead of Cubase) on the iPad.

Moreover, and that’s just the way I am, in my mind, I’m already one step ahead…
What if in the future, I wanted to add a small MIDI keyboard to the mix ; a small 49 key model would suffice, I’m on a desk after all, just to use the MX’s sounds and give some extra room to play with (already found the perfect desktop stand for it). Something like the Alesis Q49, apparently quite good quality and it’s dirt cheap.
Suppose I get one of these, I’d connect it to the MIDI in of the MX and I’d be good to go ? There’s also the Q49 MKII (or the M-Audio Keystation 49 MkIII for that matter) but that’s USB only so that would complicate the USB connection thingy even more..

In essence, I don’t really know what would work best. I’d prefer to use the iMac, a lot more real estate than my iPad, but that brings the MIDI over USB problems with it. And I wouldn’t like to lose the Audio over USB capability of the MX, so I don’t know in what way using a USB/MIDI hub would affect this (if using any kind of hub would work at all).
If it should prove too complicated, I’ll just settle for my iPad, 12,9 inch isn’t too bad really and I can use it more or less as a computer with my Bluetooth keyboard and mouse (tried that a couple of times, works surprisingly well).

Right, I have ‘worked’ enough for the day, going to have a relaxing bath and maybe hit the Kawai ivories after dinner

 

[Biggles]

Easiest option is to use your iPad connected to your Kawai and start by buying Music Studio for your iPad plus its add ons you will then have pretty good piano vst’s and full orchestra sounds to use

You can use Garage Band plus as many of the hundreds of other Music Creation apps as you want.

If your Kawai is close to your iMAC you can connect them together and use Garage Band on your iMAC, if you then buy Main Stage you will have 6Gb of VST’s to use.

Either of these two would be imo the best option for learning how to use synth sounds etc.

 

[anotherscott]

You connect an iOS device to the MX via USB to unlock all the sounds in the app, which can also be controlled with the knobs on the MX. But if my iPad is already connected to the USB to computer port, how will I connect my iMac ?
So, the problem is not a lack of USB ports on the iMac, but on the MX.
A MIDI hub might solve this

There's no such thing as a MIDI hub per se, but a "MIDI Thru" box would be the equivalent, a way to connect multiple MIDI devices to a single MIDI IN. But I don't think that's what you want here anyway.

I'm pretty sure the FM Essentials app only has to be physically connected to the MX once, and after that, it is permanently unlocked. That being the case, you don't have to maintain that direct physical connection. So again, I think the answer is "connect the iPad to one of your computer's USB ports, connect your MIDI keyboard to another, and use your software to route things the way you want."

A USB hub allows you to attach multiple slaves to a host. It will not let you attach a slave to multiple hosts. (You also cannot attach a slave to a slave, or a host to a host.) The MX is always a slave. The Mac is always a host. The iPad is usually a host, but when connected to a Mac, it functions as a slave.

 

[Kaneda]

@Biggles
Always the sensible one...

@anotherscott
Interesting, never looked at it from that angle.
So, in essence, what you're sarying would be to let the iMac function as some sort of hub, routing everything from FM Essentials on the iPad (or iPhone would work, too) to the MX.
I suppose the Audio over USB would work as expected, so I would hear the sounds from the iMac/Garageband/Cubase or whatever and the FM Essentials app through the iLoud speakers, connected to the Line out of the MX ?
And what about a possible 49 key controller ? I assume it would be best to go for legacy MIDI to connect it to the MX because I don't think that connecting that to the iMac as well would work.

I know I'm probably asking stupid questions but MIDI really is not my forte...

 

[anotherscott]

So, in essence, what you're sarying would be to let the iMac function as some sort of hub, routing everything from FM Essentials on the iPad (or iPhone would work, too) to the MX.

Software on the Mac can take any incoming MIDI and route it to any MIDI destination (whether an internal VST or external device). I have not done it when the device is an iPad, but I think it should work, and let you route MIDI from the MX to the FM Essentials sound source on the attached iOS device. You certainly could route it to another keyboard or external sound module, I assume you could route it to the iPad/iPhone as well, though I've never done that myself.

I suppose the Audio over USB would work as expected, so I would hear the sounds from the iMac/Garageband/Cubase or whatever and the FM Essentials app through the iLoud speakers, connected to the Line out of the MX ?

As for routing the audio back out of external devices and back into the MX, I don't know. But again, I'd look at the Mac as the centerpiece. If audio is going from all the attached devices into the Mac, then the easiest (if not only) solution would be to plug speakers into the Mac.

And what about a possible 49 key controller ? I assume it would be best to go for legacy MIDI to connect it to the MX because I don't think that connecting that to the iMac as well would work.

You could connect the 49 key controller to a Mac USB port, and again, software can route it to so that it triggers MX sounds (or any other sounds that are available). In this arrangement, that would probably be the only way to do it, because I'm pretty sure the MX does not let you use its MIDI jacks and also its MIDI over USB at the same time. (Some boards do let you use both at the same time, but typically not Yamaha.)

And a correction to the previous post (too late to edit)... a MIDI Thru box lets you connect multiple MIDI devices to a single MIDI OUT (not IN). Multiple devices to a singe MIDI IN would use a MIDI Merge box, not a Thru (a thru is essentially a splitter, merge is a combiner).

 

[Kaneda]

@anotherscott
Thanks a bunch, things are starting to clear up a little bit now
Think I'd better start with just the MX, the iPad and just hooking up my iLouds to the MX. See how things go and experiment a bit with MIDI along the way.
Like I said, no hurry...

 

[Biggles]

A couple of more iPad apps to checkout

Xmure, its by Dexibell

Ireels Pro

 

[Kaneda]

@Biggles
Thanks for the suggestions !

Tried Xmure, not really keen on it...
Music Studio, installed the lite version, haven't tried it yet. I'm sure it's a great app, just need to get past that Windows XP interface...
Ireal Pro : looks very promising, no free try-out version, though, interestingly, there's a Mac version, too !

Edit : iReal Pro really seems to be a gem, think I'll fork out the money for it. Thanks !

 

[anotherscott]

On the Mac (or Windows), this looks really interesting... https://www.jjazzlab.com/en/

 

[Biggles]

That looks good

There is another iPad App, One Man Band

I have downloaded it but not yet tried it myself.