Amp recommendations wanted

[Stokely]

(Originally posted in the General section before I saw this category. Apologies for the double posting).

Hello,

I need something for practice to be heard over a heavy-handed drummer I'll need something for stage monitoring as well as "mains" for really small gigs (maybe). We play pop/rock. I haven't played live in a long, long time...my last amp was a Peavey KB 300 in the early 80's. (Please, if it's heavier than that thing, I don't want it!)

I'm leaning toward a PA speaker, something like the Mackie 450s, vs an amp (see budget ramblings below).

On build quality and budget:
My budget is "as low as possible". This is a casual band, not going to make tons of money here, so "the boss" has fixed me (and my credit card) in her baleful glare I hate cheap crap that breaks, but the reality is I don't have tons of cash to throw around. I'm hoping for $300 or under. I should mention that I'm only (unfortunately) planning to run mono, so that's for one speaker. Brand-wise (at guitar center, I get a discount there), that leaves me with things like Gem, Gemini, Behringer, Harbinger and American Audio. The Tapco Thump 15" is at the top of my budget range. For amps, I could get one of several Behringers or one of the smaller Roland or Peaveys.

I've sort of targeted a 12" speaker as a compromise between weight, cost and having some bass...Do you think a 10" or even 8" might work (if spl will be enough)? I'm an old guy now, light is good

Anyway, seems like a great site. I welcome any and all comments!

 

[meisenhower]

Honestky Stokley, with a top end of $300 USD out the door (after paying tax), you're not going to find many choices that will satisfy you.

If $300 is truly your budget, you should be looking for a "used" Roland KC series amp (and to match a heavy handed drummer) you'll likely need a 350 at least. I don't see a "NEW" solution to this problem.

Most of the other lower cost keyboard amps are crap and will: A) sound like crap, and B) reliability can be dodgy at best.

Your idea of a single Mackie 450's is a great one (I use a big mackie rig myself), but they're way over budget (even before you add in the preamp/mixer stage).

Lastly, even more bad news. Depending on what soundset your going to use, some speaker sizes hold up better than others. If you're doing 80's synth pop, an 8, 10 simply wont do and even 12" speakers can be eaten alive. Same goes for Hammond organ patches.

All bets are off, if you're playing in a quiet venue and sort of backgroundy where a smaller, lighter, less powerful amp will do; but you're competing with a loud drummer (telling him to play softer will help too).

Best of luck on this vexing problem.

Ray

 

[Stokely]

Hey, thanks for the reply.

Unfortunately, we are indeed playing some 80's synth pop and when we are not I'm usually using a hammond patch

Are the Mackies the cheapest PA speakers that you would get?

I did see a used Roland kc500 (I think)...150watt keyboard amp...for $350 before any negotiations For that much I kind of figured I'd look at the PA speakers, but if the amps are much more solid maybe I'll think again.

 

[PianoMan]

No the PA speakers are better methinks, but more costly... like, much more costly. They cost more alone, but also with the mackie you'd need to buy a small passive mixer as you can't plug the keyboard directly into the mackie, setting you back another $150 or so at least (for the mixer, nevermind the speaker).

 

[Stokely]

Go easy on me, dumb question I'm sure: Why wouldn't I be able to plug keys right into the Mackie? Seems like most of the powered mixers I've seen accept line level and some have a mixer of sorts on the back...is it unbalanced vs balanced or something?

 

[meisenhower]

Stokely:

No worries, we go easy on everyone here, as there's such wide variety of experience levels here, and we all learn from each other.


Ok. . . .


First off, the Mackie SRM 450's only accept an XLR in. The vast majority of keyboards only use 1/4" outs (with some rare exceptions). Yes, you can get an adaptor or impedance transformer, but that still won't help you with the lack of signal coming from your keyboard. Most line level instruments also typically lack the gain stage to boost the signal to the powered speaker.

It's "possible", but not recommended that you bypass a mixer stage (honestly, there are so many low cost small format mixers out there, it's not the mixer cost you should be concerned with).

Don't confuse powered "mixers" with powered "speakers." The powered mixer has both a preamp stage AND and an amplifier stage.

The powered speaker only has an amplifier stage. This is where the mixer (preamp) comes in to boost the signal, so it's usable for the amp/speaker combo.

Lastly, the street price of new Mackie SRM 450 V2's are around $700 USD on average. Used SRM 450's can be had for around $400 each.

You can likely fine a cheap small mixer new for $99 USD or maybe $40 used. This is still quite above your original budget estimate.

You'll be hard pressed to find a powered speaker/preamp combo that will be satisfactory for your budget. The new QSC's are killer too, but they're the same price as the Mackie's.

As far as the lower cost brand powered speakers (behringer, GEM,, etc), I wouldn't recommend them. All you need to do is A/B them with the big boys and you'll immediately hear where those extra dollars have gone!

Sounds to me like that used KC500 you've seen may be your best overall bet for quality on your budget.

You'll simply need to buy what sounds best to you, based on what you can afford to spend. Who cares if it's an integrated keyboard amp, or powered speaker/mixer combo. If cost were no object, then this would be a different discussion altogether.

Ray

 

[Stokely]

Thanks for the info! Now for a post to make you cringe

I've found some *really* cheap powered speakers that were recommended by a keys player on another forum (who has some really nice stuff and has tried a lot of the amps and speakers). Because this brand is pretty unknown and mostly sells through ebay (I would buy from their site instead) I'm duly skeptical. I'm waiting on a couple other reviews from people who bought them on his recommendation, and if I get a few more positives I may take a flier on them. The ebay positive to negative is 10,000+ positive to 7 negative so I'm inclined to take their guarantee/warranty promises as genuine.

Podium Pro Audio 8" Powered Speaker by OnlyFactoryDirect

I could run stereo for that price. A bonus is that I could use them to replace my old KRK studio monitors (which I could then sell; I don't use them much at all).

We'll see what the other guinea pigs say. The first guy compared them favorably to Mackie 350s (which of course was met by skeptism ). I'm very conservative usually about buying stuff but the price and being able to sell my monitors (assuming they will sell) are right.

 

[meisenhower]

I'd be a little skeptical too!! $109 each? 8" woofers? 200 Watts?

Before purchasing, I'd consider checking out their return policy.

If they have a no questions asked, 30 day return, then I guess the risk to try them is minimal.

If they don't, then that generally speaks volumes about the product.

It's not unusual for a "direct seller" to have a quality low cost product, but they usually have an equally good return policy if you're not 100% happy with the purchase.

Caveat Emptor, and you almost always get what you pay for!!

Let us know what shakes out from this development.

 

[Stokely]

Yes, I almost always subscribe to "you get what you pay for." I had an email conversation with the owner (I think, they are both Mike if not) and he reiterated that their return policy is 30 day money back, with a lifetime warranty. Unfortunately you do have to pay shipping back, and that would be a big percentage of the price.

Their ebay feedback plus the other forum's members are making this an option for me where otherwise I would not consider it. Well, that and having no money for any other good alternative

Monday I should get another review, and he sounds like he's going to run them through the wringer. Obviously there's no way to test how well they will hold up. The first guy did state that they felt and looked sturdier than the cheap Behringers.

 

[PianoMan]

Buy Tapco TH-15A Thump 15" Powered Speaker | Powered Cabinets | Musician's Friend

Something also to consider maybe? I checked out some of these at a store... spent a bit of time playing around, and I was considering getting one (or two). I opted for a Motion Sound KP200s due to a) cheap used price (and there was a reason for that, I found out later... thing went into repair 2 months after I got it, you'd think buying from a store they would check their products, used or not, oh well at least warranty covered it...) and b) stage space. The Tapco thump speakers are large for my purposes.

Tapco is Mackie's off-shore company, or off-shoot or something like that, mackie parts and whatnot. If you could try one of these out, I think it might be better than a Roland amp.

 

[Stokely]

Thanks for the reply.

Yep, the Tapco Thump is definitely a thought, though it's a bit out of my measly budget. I checked it out at Best Buy of all places, A/Bed it with several others. The Mackie 350 (or was it a 450? don't remember) had a bit more clarity, but then it should for being quite a bit more expensive. It sounded very nice though. I wish they made 10" or 12" version; I'm kind of excited about the possibility for stereo, and being able to replace my passive studio monitors* helps with costs

*with the understanding that powered PA speakers are not really studio monitors; but then I don't really have a studio

 

[Stokely]

Well, someone got their Podium Pro 802s in quicker than expected.

They gave them a great review, basically that: the sound was excellent, the build quality was very solid, and they were very quiet while no signal was present. He tried some thumping stuff and some acoustic instruments and was impressed.

I posted to the speaker owners if they think they'd be enough for my uses; they both mentioned that these would work as PA for a good-size room so I suspect yes. Pending that answer I'm taking a shot on them. I'll post back my impressions if there are any other cash-strapped folks that may be interested.