Chord changes

[Rafferty]

Thank you for sharing this information I very much value your input. For a novice there is a lot of information and theory to absorb.To an accomplished musician my questions may seem irrelevant. However, the information received from you, CowboyNQ and Rayblewit assisted it setting up a basic routine or baseline that will assist my future progression.

One of the key lesson I take from interacting with forum members can be summed up with one word "patience". I think learning music is not watching an accomplished player perform on YouTube, then "dive" to the keyboard and expect to instantly replicate the performance, rather it's value should be that of a motivator.

On a different note, I am working through the course "Piano for All". The course focuses on developing rhythm and chord progressions using the right hand. The difficulty I find is transferring chord fingering from the right to the left hand.

Anyway enough of my ramblings. Thanks again for your input and have a great weekend.

Rafferty

 

[CowboyNQ]

One of the key lesson I take from interacting with forum members can be summed up with one word "patience". I think learning music is not watching an accomplished player perform on YouTube, then "dive" to the keyboard and expect to instantly replicate the performance, rather it's value should be that of a motivator

I could not have put it better.

Music, like anything in life worth doing, takes time, practice and patience. Apply enough of those ingredients and you'll be rewarded - and sooner than you think.

 

[Rayblewit]

One of the key lesson I take from interacting with forum members can be summed up . . .

Key lessons? Who is giving Keys lessons?

ray

 

[Rafferty]

Key lessons? Who is giving Keys lessons?

ray

Ray,

The analogy springs to mind "beating them into submission". BTW how is NY, NY coming along?

 

[Rayblewit]

BTW how is NY, NY coming along?

I find this is the most difficult of all my music. It is just the last part of the song where it goes slow. The rest of the song is fine. I cannot make it sound anything close to normal. @CowboyNQ did guide me and maybe I have progessed a little. The key of Gb flattens almost all the notes and I got confused with the C actually flattens to a B major. Now I know why learning scales is important.

Later today I will take a srceen shot of the sheet music you can see what I mean and maybe someone can transpose it for me. .

What about you with SITN?

Ray

 

[Rafferty]

Good to hear you are progressing even if it may not be at your desired pace. Nice to have a mentor/guide like @CowboyNQ . I remember his earlier advice to you “stretch yourself”.

SITN is coming along albeit at a snails pace. I am "stretched" with rapid chord changes towards the end. However, reducing the tempo by 10 to 20% and using a couple of inversions assisted in progress.

By the way the keyboard chord chart you recommended arrived and I am very pleased with it.

Below the chord changes that keep me “hopping” and "stretched"

Rafferty

 

[Rayblewit]

Those chord changes are a challenge for sure Rafferty.
That was one of my original tunes to learn a few years ago and was tricky I must admit.
But now I can play it smoothly and as Cowboy said . .

takes time, practice and patience. Apply enough of those ingredients and you'll be rewarded - and sooner than you think.

Trying to apply same approach to New York
This is the part which suffers me . .
I even added in the flats on the staff. lol!

Ray . . (planning my Sunday afternoon challenge!)

 

[Rayblewit]

Hey Rafferty,
Here is a tune you know well. .
Try playing this!
Check out the chord changes . . 4 changes in one bar!
To be honest. . I do struggle with it.
cheers ray
https://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/mtd.asp?ppn=MN0085012

and this tricky bit . .

 

[Rafferty]

Hey Rafferty,
Here is a tune you know well. .
Try playing this!
Check out the chord changes . . 4 changes in one bar!
To be honest. . I do struggle with it.
cheers ray
https://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/mtd.asp?ppn=MN0085012



Wow ..Ray what a handful (pun intended). Never again will I associate one chord change per bar for for 5 bars as being difficult.. Incidentally, I have had a productive weekend. Employing CowboyNQ 's "stretch" philosophy I made reasonable progress with SITN. In other words with the sun on my back, a 15 kn SE wind, head slightly tilted (to allow neurons to fire in orderly fashion) I managed to play/bluff my way past the rapid chord changes.

As with many things there are downsides. As a result of my youthful enthusiasm on display, I suffered some collateral damage. My fan base (Wife and dog) moved into the "granny" flat.

Cheers, Rafferty

 

[Rayblewit]

Rafferty wrote: As a result of my youthful enthusiasm on display, I suffered some collateral damage. My fan base (Wife and dog) moved into the "granny" flat.
LOL!
btw. If you ever want a copy of "Advance Australia Fair", I can send it to you.
I think musicnotes and others have a bloody cheek in selling this song. I was disgusted to see they wanted me to buy it. It is our national pride and should be free to everyone! Anyway I managed to get a copy from a good friend.

Glad you have made progress with SITN. I also have moved up a peg or two with NY,NY.
cheers ray

 

[trebleclef]

Hi,

As indicated in a previous post I am a novice keyboard player. Nevertheless, I play with a lot of enthusiasm but often have cause to question my talent or potential lack of it. As such, I am often tempted to take up Origami or synchronised swimming. The following is an example of an area I am struggling with:

I am practicing a well known Sinatra song, time 4/4, key of F. There is a passage which requires a cord change in every bar for seven bars (Gm, Gm7b5, F, Dm7, Gm7, C7, F), my chord fingering is traditional piano. Now after several hours of practice I still make errors playing the chords and in many instances find myself a beat or two behind.

Consequently, I wonder how you professional or semi pros approach an issue such as this.

Cheers,

Rafferty

Hi.

My best piece of advice for practice is practice slow, learn fast. If you practice the chord changes to a very slow beat, and I mean VERY slow, and then increase the tempo by 1 BPM every 5 mins, you will improve. If you cant handle it at a certain tempo, just slow it down to the tempo you could manage, then try speeding up again in 5 mins. Carry on like this and it will come.

Also have regular breaks. You will come back to the instument and most likely improved. Don't rush. Slow and accurate is better than quick and sloppy

You dont need much hand travel with the chord progression you said

Let me know how you go.

Good luck.

 

[Rafferty]

Hi.

My best piece of advice for practice is practice slow, learn fast. If you practice the chord changes to a very slow beat, and I mean VERY slow, and then increase the tempo by 1 BPM every 5 mins, you will improve. If you cant handle it at a certain tempo, just slow it down to the tempo you could manage, then try speeding up again in 5 mins. Carry on like this and it will come.

Also have regular breaks. You will come back to the instument and most likely improved. Don't rush. Slow and accurate is better than quick and sloppy

You dont need much hand travel with the chord progression you said

Let me know how you go.

Good luck.

Hi,

Thank you kindly for your feedback. I have implemented a similar routine as suggested by you. For example the Sinatra song I practice stipulates a tempo of 90 BPM. I commenced my practice at a tempo of 70 and then gradually increased the speed in increments of 5 BPM, thus far up to 85 BPM.

As a complimentary approach to my sessions I play the chords at various speeds, this seems to enhance the learning process and dexterity of my fingers.

All in all, I really start to enjoy and look forward to my practice sessions, progress is slow but incremental. I can honestly say this is largely due to forum members like you, sharing techniques and practice routines via this forum.

Wishing you a great weekend,
Rafferty

 

[trebleclef]

No problem. I would rather share my experience if it helps people. Progress is slow but incremental. That is good. And if one day it isn't incremental, that's fine. Keep the faith. As long as you keep steadily plodding along, you'll get there.

In the tortoise and the hare story, be the tortoise. Good luck. Have fun.

 

[ptooner]

Nice to have a new player with us! I'd like to point out one thing if I understood you correctly - you don't have to play a chord all at once. In fact, usually you don't. I'd suggest playing the chords alone and listening to what notes make them up. You may notice the harmony or countermelody there. On an aside, I looked at four versions of Strangers in the Night and can't find the changes you refer to. I sorta like that progression, but it's not one I normally play. If you will mention which bars you are referring to or perhaps the lyrics there I think I can offer more ideas.
Gerry

 

[Rafferty]

Hi Gerry,

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my query, much appreciated. I downloaded the music from SheetMusicDirect.com (Keyboard version). The challenge (for a novice) was to play 6 chord changes in as many bars, particularly the change from Dm7 to Gm7 kept me on my “toes”.

Suggestions from forum members to slow down the tempo, substitute speed for accuracy use inversions if applicable and most importantly keep ‘stretching yourself” worked well. I am now up to speed with SITN and wonder what the “fuss” was all about.

In regards to chords, I loosely follow the curriculum as laid out by Piano for All focusing on playing rhythms and chord progressions with both hands. Whilst this approach enhances my dexterity and a feel for rhythms, the feedback and routines received from Tutors on this forum provided a solid base for my practice routines and as such allows for progress at a steady pace.

Kind Regards,

Rafferty

 

[ptooner]

Okay, now that I see where you are talking about let me suggest this fingering assuming left hand?

Gm ( D, G, Bb 4, 2, 1) – Gm7b5 (C#, F, G, Bb 5, 3, 2, 1) – F ( C, F, A 5, 2, 1) – Dm7 ( DFAC 5,3,2,1) Gm7 (DFG Bb 5,3,2,1) C7 (C E G Bb) F (CFA 521) Also see below for alternate fingering. These are the ways that I find most comfortable for these chords but you should learn different inversions for convenience. Notice that none of these notes are below C3. That is because I frequently play with a bass player and you tend to step on his notes if you go lower. Also, I sometimes split my keyboards at that point. If I can figure out how to do so I will try to demo what I mean about not playing block chords only.



DM7 alternate fingering CDFA 5,4,2,1

 

[Rafferty]

Thank you Gerry, I am experimenting with the fingering you described. The importance of economical hand/finger movement has been communicated to me by forum members particularly the important roles inversions play in the process. Since, I have devoted much of my practice time to study and practice inversion.

The following is an example of how I “tackled” SITN in regards to the 3 chords:

Dm7 D,F,A,C (5,3,2,1)
Gm7b5 G,Bb,Db,F (5,3,2,1)
C7 G,Bb,C,E (5,3,2,1)

Rightly or wrongly I attempt to use the most efficient and economical way to change chords. For example, looking at C7 in Blue Spanish Eyes I use C,E,G,Bb (5,3,2,1) in contrast to G,Bb,C,E because the transition from C to C7 just feels right. I sometimes wonder if there is a right or wrong way to play a chord or chord sequence or if accomplished musicians actually develop their own individual style?

As a novice I endeavour to get the basics right and I am appreciative for the feedback and tuition I receive.

Best Regards and have a great weekend,
Rafferty

 

[Biggles]

Sounds like you are doing great.

I play around with inversions and roots in a new song until a combination feels right, comfortable and the transition from one chord to another does not leave my fingers figuratively in a knot. There is no right or wrong, there is what works for you.

If you have the keyboard real estate then it can be useful to walk the chord progressions up and down the keyboard to effect different tones into the song.

 

[Rayblewit]

I play around with inversions and roots in a new song until a combination feels right, comfortable and the transition from one chord to another does not leave my fingers figuratively in a knot.

I like that Col. Nicely put!
After the initial play around, you eventually get a mind set. Comfort and smoothness prevail and the brain takes over and the fingers just follow instructions automatically without thinking!
Playing a tune over and over, day after day soon becomes second nature and chord progressions are not a problem at all. No thinking required.
When this happens one starts thinking of ways to enhance the melody by adding extra notes and special effects.
This is when playing music becomes rewarding, uplifting and exciting.

The initial frustrations of memorising chord configurations and coping with the timing of quick chord changes etc becomes distant memories in respect of standard everyday tunes which you play. However, new tunes will always be a challenge and that is another aspect of enjoyment. To overpower the challenge!
Ray

 

[Biggles]

Thanks for the nice comment Ray, much appreciated.

This week I have started to play again after my enforced layoff due the the injured right wrist.

Alas 15 minutes is all I can manage with both hands so it will be a case of left hand practice for quite a while yet.

What I am also doing is spending time just looking at a few scores, visualising the melody, bass and rhythm lines and just slowly playing left hand.