Juno DS 88 and Ferrofish B-4000 midi question


happyrat1

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I'm uncertain about whether or not Yamaha requires additional drivers.

The Cable is almost always a standard USB 2.0 AB Printer Cable.

That should be the same on the Yamaha. That should give you MIDI connectivity to a computer. If you wish to also send Audio to the computer that will require additional cabling.

Gary ;)
 
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If you are trying to connect the Ferrofish to the DS by USB, do realize that you don't just plug one directly to the other. You have to route the MIDI signals via a computer or a USB MIDI Host adapter. They're both USB MIDI Class Compliant instruments so no drivers need to be loaded, even though Roland has a driver that extends the capabilities of USB MIDI it should not be absolutely necessary to install it.

As for the MIDI cable. It is very possible the cable is a dud. I've run into a few bad MIDI cables in the past.

If you have a DVOM it's pretty simple to test a cable one pin at a time.

Keep us posted.

Gary ;)
I'm going out get new cable today. Thanks for the help so far. i hope to get it working...
 
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If you are trying to connect the Ferrofish to the DS by USB, do realize that you don't just plug one directly to the other. You have to route the MIDI signals via a computer or a USB MIDI Host adapter. They're both USB MIDI Class Compliant instruments so no drivers need to be loaded, even though Roland has a driver that extends the capabilities of USB MIDI it should not be absolutely necessary to install it.

As for the MIDI cable. It is very possible the cable is a dud. I've run into a few bad MIDI cables in the past.

If you have a DVOM it's pretty simple to test a cable one pin at a time.

Keep us posted.

Gary ;)
 
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Can't believe it, it was the cable! I just came home from music store with new cable and works just like you said Gary thanks. Leave local on and use the volume knob on the DS... Time to start learning the contraption... Thanks for all the help.
 

happyrat1

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BTW, volume control works on the DS. On the ferrofish if you want to silence the organ voice you have to push all the drawbars back to position zero.

Gary ;)
 
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BTW, volume control works on the DS. On the ferrofish if you want to silence the organ voice you have to push all the drawbars back to position zero.

Gary ;)
Yes that is an issue when changing sounds. Like today I have to record on five songs, Tell Mamma, Vehicle, Lady Marmalade, I Need Never Get Old, and Soulshake. Marmalade needs to get off the organ and onto the piano right at the beginning and Soulshake too etc. I trying to avoid two boards. Too much. I could get a controler, 76 key for organ stuff I guess. The RD is too big and heavy these days and to much with the Juno. But At least I'm this far along thanks!
 
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Alter your approach... Turning local off silences the Juno so create a patch (preset, whatever its called on the Juno) with local off so you only get the organ when you play the keyboard. Create a second preset with local on and send it to a different midi channel than the Ferrofish is set to (say midi channel 16). When you play that preset the juno will play but not the ferrofish because the Ferrofish won't respond to data on midi channel 16 if its not set to receive on channel 16. This way you dont have to deal with volume knobs and pulling sliders in and out. Just a quick preset change and everything is instantly ready to go.
 

happyrat1

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First off I'm not certain you can program CC# Messages into the DS.

Secondly, turning off local on a module? How does that work? There is no local keyboard. I don't even think it would respond to a local off command and even if it did, the MIDI OUT is still going into the module. There is no Local keyboard so it will continue to play whatever MIDI is sent to it.

It might be doable by setting Channel Volume to 0 but again I'm not sure you can program the DS to send CC numbers in a performance.

Gary ;)
 

happyrat1

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Actually the simplest way to control the individual volumes of the keyboard and the module would be to use a decent audio mixer with slider controls to shift back and forth. :)

Sliders work better than knobs here because you can control two channels simultaneously with one hand. ;)

Gary ;)
 
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Once again I will say that if programmed correctly none of the above are necessary. I run a Gemini module, as well as Voce V5+ with PC3. I have it programmed that when I want organ I get just the organ and no PC3 sounds, when I want to use the PC3 sounds I change the preset and get the PC3 sounds and no organ. No need to shut down sliders or turn up/down volume knobs or adjust mixer channel levels on and off, it's how you setup MIDI configuration in each preset that will allow you to get the desired result.
 

happyrat1

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A Roland Juno DS has nowhere near the programmabliity as a controller that the Kurzweil PC3 line has.

Like I said it's probably not doable at all with this board.

What the hell could be simpler than flicking two sliders back and forth?

Gary ;)
 
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turning off local on a module? How does that work? There is no local keyboard
He said "Turning local off silences the Juno" so he was talking about turning Local Off on the Juno, not on the module. But regardless of that...

Alter your approach... Turning local off silences the Juno so create a patch (preset, whatever its called on the Juno) with local off so you only get the organ when you play the keyboard. Create a second preset with local on
The Local Off settings are global and not saved per-patch. (Are there any boards that don't work this way?) However if the goal here is to create patches where the internal sound engine is silent (so you are triggering only an external MIDI sound), it should be easy enough to create and save a patch that will be silent (not via Local Off, but just by saving it with its volume level at zero). Moreover (and closer to what you were talking about by putting the Ferrofish on channel 16), the Juno DS is 16-part multi-timbral, and in Performance mode, you can individually turn on and off keyboard triggering of internal sounds for each channel within each performance. So yes, you should be able to easily create patches that just play the internal sound and other patches that just play the external sound (and switch between them at will with a single button if desired), it's just that Local Off is not the mechanism for doing it.

A Roland Juno DS has nowhere near the programmabliity as a controller that the Kurzweil PC3 line has.

Like I said it's probably not doable at all with this board.
While the DS does not even begin to approach the Kurz in MIDI functionality, you can indeed create Performances to accomplish this goal. Picking up from my previous paragraph, Performances do allow you to choose which MIDI channel the keyboard (or a specified portion of the keyboard) will transmit on. If we put the Ferrofish on (for example) channel 16, any Performance that includes sending on channel 16 will trigger the Ferrofish, any other will not; and as long as we do not also activate an internal keyboard sound on channel 16 the Ferrofish will sound without sounding an internal sound, if desired. The DS does have enough MIDI functionality to save Performances with different MIDI channels set to play only the internal sound, or only the external sound (or both, or neither).

Actually the simplest way to control the individual volumes of the keyboard and the module would be to use a decent audio mixer with slider controls to shift back and forth.
It's even simpler than that, because the Juno DS basically has such a mixer already built in. If you take the output of the Ferrofish and feed it into the Mic Input of the DS, its level will be controlled by one of the four part volume sliders conveniently located on the front panel of the DS (they are for upper part, lower part, trigger pads, and mic in). I know, it's not a mic, but just set the levels accordingly and it will work. Although if you actually need to also hook up a mic (e.g. to use the vocoder or the vocal processing in the DS), then you'll need another solution since then that input will not be available for the Ferrofish. (The DS does have a separate additional Line Input, but no separate volume control for it.)
 

happyrat1

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I considered and discarded the thought of using the mic input and the sliders on the DS because the signal coming in from the Ferrofish is way too hot for a mic input.

One slip of the finger tip and you will end up blowing out everyone's eardrums and your speaker cones to boot.

That's why I recommended a mixer as a proper way to quickly switch levels.

Gary ;)
 
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The DS includes a menu setting and a back-panel trim for the mic input, so you can protect against accidentally making it too loud with a slip of the finger. That said, I realized there's another consideration there, which is the mic input is mono, so that approach will only work if you're gigging in mono, or if you at least are okay with the organ sound being mono.
 

happyrat1

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Like I stated at the beginning, a couple of peculiarities of the Ferrofish are that there is no volume level control on the unit other than the drawbars themselves and the only output is a 1/4" stereo TRS output.

That said, plugging both the DS and the Ferrofish into a small mixer with sliders still seems the optimum way to control and switch levels without adding hum from a disconnected right channel.

The Ferrofish audio circuit is somewhat touchy to begin with. The Power ON thump is quite significant on that unit and there seems to be significant noise in my unit if the cabling is disturbed while powered up. I've never opened mine up but I suspect some pretty dodgy wiring inside the unit.

Gary ;)
 
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Like I stated at the beginning, a couple of peculiarities of the Ferrofish are that there is no volume level control on the unit other than the drawbars themselves and the only output is a 1/4" stereo TRS output.

That said, plugging both the DS and the Ferrofish into a small mixer with sliders still seems the optimum way to control and switch levels without adding hum from a disconnected right channel.
If you just use a regular guitar cable (2-conductor instead of the 3 conductor TRS), I believe you'll get just one of the two channels, without a hum from a disconnected channel.
 
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happyrat1

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Using a TS connector in a TRS socket effectively shorts one output channel to ground.

While this may work for a while in some units it is definitely not recommended as a long term workaround.

Gary ;)
 

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