Juno DS 88 and Ferrofish B-4000 midi question

[DaveL]

I picked up a trs to xlr and a trs splitter to two regular 1/4 plugs. Which do you think better? Run the ferrofish into the mixer with the trs to xlr mic input, or the splitter into two 1/4 inputs on two channels?

 

[happyrat1]

The TRS to XLR wouldn't work at all properly. There are two stereo channels in the TRS output of the ferrofish and combining the signals to your mixer would either cancel each other out or else short out one channel.

The TRS to 2 TS 1/4" plugs is the correct cable to use in this case.

Save the TRS to XLR connector for any gear you might have that has balanced outputs.

Gary

 

[DaveL]

Thanks much, glad I didn't try anything yet. I was thinking that trs means balanced, like a mic cable, but in this case it is two channels going out. i think I get it.

 

[happyrat1]

Exactly!

If the standards committees were a bit smarter to begin with they wouldn't have designed such an ambiguous connector in the first place.

Gary

 

[DaveL]

Yes indeed.. I'm glad I asked and thanks for the info again as before. There is alot to this stuff.... I stopped using the Ferrofish until I got the right cables because as you warned its a trs and two channel not really for a regular ts connection. nothing about that in the manual which really isn't very informative in detail.

 

[happyrat1]

I think the only place you find it listed is on their website or on some dealers' websites under the product specs.

Agreed it's not much of a manual.

Gary

 

[happyrat1]

Check out the list of specs on this website where I bought mine years ago. At the bottom it lists stereo output and headphone jacks.

Ferrofish B4000+ - Authentic Organ Sound Module

Buy Ferrofish B4000+ - Authentic Organ Sound Module featuring Supports 3 Manuals - Upper, Lower, Pedal, 9 Drawbars, 6 Dials, Tonewheel Emulation, Key Click, Key Contact Delay Simulation, Percussion, Rotating Speaker Emulation, Tube Amplifier with Overdrive Simulation, Effects with External Audio...

www.bhphotovideo.com

That was my only clue as well.

Gary

 

[DaveL]

I was surprised at the manual and such considering it is a German product. I assumed it would be carefully engineered and the manual likewise and so forth. The module itself so far seems great, its just my learning curve which is the hang up.

 

[DaveL]

Very good thanks, I checked it out.

 

[anotherscott]

If the standards committees were a bit smarter to begin with they wouldn't have designed such an ambiguous connector in the first place.

Interesting history of the XLR at http://www.soundfirst.com/xlr.html

But XLR and 1/4" TRS are simply 3-pin connectors, and even having an official implementation doesn't prevent someone from using them for something else. I think TRS is probably more often used for unbalanced stereo rather than balanced mono (two applications that each use 3 wires), but both are pretty common. On one hand, it could cause confusion... OTOH, it means that you can use the same cable for either purpose, and that can be convenient too.

 

[DaveL]

Confusing indeed... I got the TRS splitter to two 1/4 TS and connected to two channels on mixer. Sounds very nice that way. But then there are two volumes to turn down to switch back to Juno sounds, but no biggie.
The presets on the Ferrofish are wonderful but I notice that the sliders affect them. So it is hard to tell what the sliders were on the original preset. Some great organ sounds though. Way beyond the Juno's built in ones.

 

[happyrat1]

Well there's always the need for some compromises and workarounds when you are emulating another instrument in a module.

Glad to hear that you finally have it working for you though.

Here's hoping you post some cool tunes someday.

Gary

 

[DaveL]

Thanks much Gary and for all the help!

 

[happyrat1]

You're very welcome

Gary

 

[anotherscott]

The presets on the Ferrofish are wonderful but I notice that the sliders affect them. So it is hard to tell what the sliders were on the original preset.

The presets are combinations of those drawbar (slider) settings. If you're curious to know what setting created a certain preset, luckily the sliders DO affect them, or else I don't know how you'd be able to tell what the settings are! You should be able to determine the settings this way: load the preset, move one of the drawbars to see how it affects the sound, and locate which of that drawbar's 9 positions makes it sound like the original (you can recall the preset to compare). Once you determine what the first drawbar should be, you can do the same thing for the other eight, one at a time. At the end, you'll be able to set all 9 drawbars in a way that mirrors the preset.

Also, check out all the b4000+ downloaded files/docs, if you haven't yet... https://www.ferrofish.com/downloads/

 

[Biggles]

Surely the Preset Manager software should display the settings of the unit for each of the presets once they have been loaded into the software which presumably will happen once the 4000 is connected to the computer and the software started.

 

[anotherscott]

Surely the Preset Manager software should display the settings of the unit for each of the presets once they have been loaded into the software which presumably will happen once the 4000 is connected to the computer and the software started.

I'm not sure... a quick look at the docs seem to show you can move the presets around to new locations, but it doesn't seem to display their settings. Like a librarian, not an editor. Which is not unreasonable, since editing drawbar settings on screen is nearly pointless on something with 9 actual drawbars.

 

[Biggles]

I'm not sure... a quick look at the docs seem to show you can move the presets around to new locations, but it doesn't seem to display their settings. Like a librarian, not an editor. Which is not unreasonable, since editing drawbar settings on screen is nearly pointless on something with 9 actual drawbars.

Seems unreasonable to me.

I fail to see the point of software if you cannot set the parameters that matter.

I would expect each Preset to have the setting for each Drawbar, and the Rotary settings etc.

 

[anotherscott]

I fail to see the point of software if you cannot set the parameters that matter.

It's the difference between a librarian and an editor. Not every piece of gear has both functions available in software. Or either one. ;-)

Librarians are for moving patches to different locations, or swapping in new patches you might have downloaded, etc.

Editors let you manipulate the parameters of the patches. Not so important if the board/module itself has front panel access to all the parameters anyway (in fact, in that case, it should be easier to use the controls on the board). But when a board has functions scattered among numerous deep menus (or functions you can't even get to directly from the board itself!), it sure is helpful to have an editor...

 

[Biggles]

It's the difference between a librarian and an editor. Not every piece of gear has both functions available in software. Or either one. ;-)

Librarians are for moving patches to different locations, or swapping in new patches you might have downloaded, etc.

Editors let you manipulate the parameters of the patches. Not so important if the board/module itself has front panel access to all the parameters anyway (in fact, in that case, it should be easier to use the controls on the board). But when a board has functions scattered among numerous deep menus (or functions you can't even get to directly from the board itself!), it sure is helpful to have an editor...

I am struggling on the logic of this.

My £15 Galileo II iPad app has a number of Presets, where the Drawbars are individually set by way of their positions in the Preset as is the Rotary, Brake, Percussion and a few other parameters.

Just why have software where all you can do is change the position of the Preset in the User Bank does seem fairly pointless to me.

My £75 Zoom guitar pedal that I have for my electric uke has software where each individual parameter within a Preset can be set and adjusted. My Boss GT100 pedal board also has software that is similar to the Zoom.