PC361 will not initialize scanner

[mark urquhart]

Bought used PC361 about 5 years ago, love the sounds. Over time it seems like the "initializing scanner" would occasionally take a long time to load. This had me nervous since at times would load quick and next time take could take many minutes. Today it is just hung up in the "initializing scanner....." mode on screen.

Big bummer as I have one of most important gigs of year coming up and tons of settings I have built. I seem to recall couple years ago when this started that I read online others had this and often could be loosed connection but not sure on my memory on that. I downloaded a repair manual and unfortunately cannot even perform basic diagnostics because when I quickly press exit in opening screen it still just hangs in "initializing scanner..." mode. The 6,7,8 category lights flash on but it just does not load.

Anyone else had this issue and causes. I have tried all sorts of simple things like unplugging everything to the board, sliders all down, different power cord, ect.. Gonna be tough for me to get it to shop (and only "authorized" at Kurz website shop is in distant area has very mixed reviews). This board has also had issue with going out of tune apparently from pitch bend wheel - see below PS.

(PS I previously had issues with tuning going out related to the pitch-bend Wheel that a shop back east "fixed" under an extended warranty; that then went bad again few months after that "fix" so I just left it and disabled the wheel in each of my settings based on very helpful Kurzweil support person - long story).

Thanks for any experiences or advice.

 

[delaware dave]

Underneath the keyboard is an access panel. Remove the panel using a screwdriver to remove the screws. Once inside reseat all cables, meaning whether they appear connected or not, remove and reconnect all that you can get to. Do it a couple of times as sometimes the connecting ends get 'corroded' and don't supply the best connection and the detach/reattach cleans the connectors to some degree. If you actually have a can of 'deoxit' spray the ends with that to get a better clean connection. This could very well be your issue.

 

[mark urquhart]

Dave,
Thanks for the tip. I actually found a repair manual online and was going to open the whole board to look for bad connections but your tip sounds like a better first step. I do have some old contact cleaner (four star chemical "Tronic Kleen" got at radio shack years ago (used on amp and guitar pots and some auto connectors) - but initially nervous to use that because I think it contains some oil to prevent corrosion in pots - but looking at the deoxit spray on Amazon (5%) it might be similar. I have that component cleaner in hand - do you think that is safe to use? Four Star stuff claims you can clean without even disassembly but I usually disconnect spray and let dry.

 

[mark urquhart]

Well- opened access panel and the few connectors I can get my hands on are in so tight I cannot seem to move them at all with medium pressure. I do not see any release clips on them and was hesitant to pull real hard by the wires and hard to get leverage and does not look like they are shaped for some sort of puller tool- maybe I am too cautious because I am not experienced in this type of electronics. I may just open the unit further. The inside is very clean.

 

[mark urquhart]

Wow! – problem appears to be solved. It could have been cleaning some connecters or something related to bad midi cord??! per below..

I opened the unit and spent some time disconnecting and connecting ribbon and connectors with locking tabs. I skipped many of the smaller white ones that were in very tight and I did not want to force out. I did take special care to look at the pitch bend area as that had been problem area and wheel replaced by a shop in past but repair did not last well (unit was going out of tune – long story so I disable wheel in settings). That small white to pitch bend wheel connector came out easy so sprayed and reinstalled.

While the unit was apart (no connections) I turned it on and shocked it loaded right up and went to programs. I tried this numerous times and the loading was fast every time so I assembled for testing. I powered on after hooking up different pedals and outputs one at a time and all works fine. THEN PUZZLED THAT when I midi’ed in my old SP88 the PC361 working fine BUT no sound triggering by SP88 keys (my usual setup). I then swapped out midi cord I was using and they both work fine! Darn!

Prior midi cord is in trash now – I was afraid to even try it back in if it could have caused the loading problem in first place. I have to admit I am totally unclear as to why the PC361 when totally disconnected would not load at all (tried over and over before I opened it to clean connections) and then after cleaning a few connectors loads very quickly and consistently now as when new to me. Could the midi cord (don’t even want to test it in another instrument) cause the PC361 to freak out and then it suddenly started to load fine ---or was it due to my my opening the unit and cleaning and replacing a few connectors. The problem with erratic loading has been going on for some time - not now- and I restarted it about 20 times today perfectly (fast).

I’m a civil engineer by trade and that engineer side of me wants to know how this “fix” came about – but I guess I just take it—and carefully watch the unit. I bought it used in 2012 and even though pristine thought it has gremlins because I had the unit going out of tune, which was really not fixed with the wheel replacement (lasted couple months) – and also did have it rebooting at a gig once which I guessed was a bad pedal and recently before this past failure to load issue it even had a couple of tuning issues again even though setting had wheel turned off (would be fatal flaw if that tuning issue comes back). Wish this thing was not to touchey.

Does anyone know if this unit will run if I disconnected the pitch bend wheel - or could something else be causing it to go out of tune?

Thanks Dave for reply above. Hopefully not too many details above but figured I’d do brain dump in case it helps someone else out in future. This Pc361 sound so much better than my recent MX61 backup I had to use for practice last night – it’s hell having to go backward in tone… I hate the thought of having to look for another board but have been looking - So used to Kurzweil setting I've built but after having issues with both of mine and not other makes over the years makes me wonder..

 

[delaware dave]

Every symptom that you have described the PC3 is notorious for. Going out of tune, typically a failed pitch wheel. Going out of tune when the unit's pitch wheel is disabled usually indicates another controller (perhaps a slider) is also failing and that controller has some sort of a tuning parameter associated to it, like a pitch-bend type of control to it. When it happens start touching sliders and see which one might control pitch. If you find one, turn that slider off in the control setup and then see if it stops doing it, if it does then you know a slider needs replacing. The PC3 is notorious for connection issues, no doubt in my mind that one of the connectors you touched and/or cleaned is the culprit, perhaps even the pitch wheel connector that was 'easy' to come off. Even though the pitch wheel is disconnected in your programming a bad connection will cause booting issues. Also, I use to use a Yamaha FC7 pedal and it would cause the PC3 to reboot. I switched to a Roland EV7 four years ago and it has not rebooted since the pedal switch. BTW, sometimes with the sliders a good cleaning fixes them rather than having to replace them like the pitch wheel replacement which is one of the most common issues the PC3 has. I think you're now good to go. The PC3 now booting up properly is no coincidence, it was an internal connection. But just to be safe throw out that bad Midi cord.

BTW, make sure that you are at a minimum on OS version 2.10. There were fixes put in 2.10 that relate to bootup and controller silencing during bootup.

 

[mark urquhart]

Thanks much on info! I'll have to pay attention to that slider issue and might even use that contact cleaner on them as preventative.

Interesting on the pedal as I do use an FC7 with Ashbey polarity adapter - I like the travel characteristics seem similar to old Hammonds I had, although polarity is pain (wish Kurz had a setting to change that). I actually had that issue with an FC7 couple times and bought a new one and none since but maybe it is that model issue you point out. I also have a backup polarity adapter I made up that uses series of connected cable and the pedal seems to behave a bit different - more to my liking in a way.

Does the Roland EV7 plug directly with no polarity adapter needed? I like the FC7 build but assume Roland may be on par given my other Roland stuff seemed well built.

I think I did upgrade to 2.10 but will double check...

I was hoping to keep this board a long time as I like the sound, drawbars and some other things. I need to try to learn programming to really take advantage. But I need to have it be more reliable for the gigging I do. I actually got so desperate that I was shopping for another PC3 but not many on market (and price is up since I bought mine).

I've been slogging through the manual trying to figure if there is a way that I can change the attack on the keybed to be more like my old Roland XP-30. I can speed much smoother and fast on that keybed and still looking to see if there is an attack envelope or something I can tweak in the PC361..

 

[delaware dave]

The FC7 is my preferred pedal but the PC3 (and it's new replacement) didn't like it. The EV7 (no longer available new) needs no Ashby adapter. The long sweep is good for organ. I've been gigging steadily with the PC3 for 6 years so I wouldn't be concerned about it. I think you'll find the reliability to be fine.

To adjust the keyboard attack go to Midi mode, then click on the XMIT tab. See the velocity map, it should be defaulted to linear. Changing this defau!t to a softer setting requires less effort to reach maximum velocity, setting it to a harder setting requires a harder touch to get it to maximum velocity. I think there is a setting in there called piano (?), not certain about that. Adjust until the response feels right.

OS 2.10 corrected many issues, including "startup issues", be sure that you are at a minimum on this OS.

Here's the PC3 in action:.

 

[mark urquhart]

Thanks for tip on velocity map. I’ll play around with that and pressure setting I also saw.

I checked and do have the Ver 210.18298 installed. I recall that I had updated after I bought the board – so probably not my issue.

I browsed Amazon and found an EV-5 but no EV-7 as you noted (EV7 old metal case version?). Should I assume that a new EV-5 will behave similar to your EV-7 setup? That would get me out of my Ashby polarity setup, and as you suggest lessen my chances of boot issues. Coincidentally the EV-5 is recommended in my old Xp-30 manual; Roland says others may damage as usual. (The FC7 works in the Roland with polarity reversed in setting with horrible short envelope)

 

[delaware dave]

The EV5 is a POS (my opinion). The throw is too short rendering the pedal about useless. The throw on the EV7 is almost the same as the FC7. Here is a used one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Ro...824835?hash=item4b1da3dac3:g:Y7AAAOSw~1pZelbZ

I purchased mine used and haven't had an ounce of trouble.

The only other pedal that I would recommend that is spec'd like the EV7 (10k ohm) is the Crumar Mojo long throw pedal.

https://www.altomusic.com/crumar-mojo-long-throw-expression-pedal-for-mojo-organ-mojolongthrow-c01

 

[mark urquhart]

I'm glad I asked about the ev-5. Thanks for the advice. Boy those two petals sure are pricey.

 

[mark urquhart]

Dave, Just finally realized you had that music link up there - Nice Stuff! Nice sound good group. I am really a blues guy at heart and sort of longing and need to get back into that just doing cover stuff with current band. Our local blues society (foothills) broke up number of years ago and miss those jams.

Were you running that through a real leslie (your 122 listed?). I like the grindy sound you have not sure I can get that with my PC361 native through amp and nice Leslie sound .... Nice sound on your recording rig also...

Most stuff from band I am in now NoBS is not as professionally recorded or done as that clip - latest gig my wife just using my Note 4 phone, I think PC361 for Procol Harum does good job of organ on this and piano part on SP-88 coming from PC361 (link below). I also like some of the Deep purple setups I've developed and using sax for stones ect is not embarrasing sound imo - so I am glad I am up and running again (MX61 would have been embarrasing sax amd DP sound imo) - "Jump" dead ringer. I've got some stuff on a utube page from phone stuff. and we did have a few studio clips I need to put back up there... (noticed they seem to be gone). If I get some skill at programming could probably do a lot better with PC361...

 

[delaware dave]

That is the PC3's double leslie that I've spent literally hundreds of hours tweaking along with tweaking the organ itself. There are still uncorrectable issues like the percussion being routed through the C/V rather than around the C/V and the C/V being generally lousy (C1 only thing useable). Here is a starting point:

http://ksetlist.com/viewtopic.php?f...al&sid=e944751aaee53e6aabd10358d4c4970f#p2611

It has been tweaked even after I created the link above but the above will get you started.