Roland Fantom G vs Yamaha Motif XS

[Tolmon]

I am studying music to become a composer and I already own a Roland FP-3 digital piano with a fantastic keyboard action and a very nice Grand piano sound.
However the sound quality other than the piano is very limited and I need much more sounds of good quality so I can start composing and train myself...

I am thinking about purchasing a workstation and it seems that two products have retained my attention but I wouldn't know how to compare them:

Roland Fantom G and Yamaha Motif XS.


I need to be able to compose in any music style I want, so QUALITY, DIVERSITY, EASE OF USE would be the key words during the decision process.

Along with my Roland FP-3 I use a Powerbook G4 with Logic Express 7

I don't know if I understand all the parameters that need to be taken into account but that is the best I can think of for the moment.

I would very much appreciate if some good heart could share his thoughts on the subject and compensate my lack of experience.

Thank you

 

[meisenhower]

They are simply comparable product offerings from the different companies. It really often boils down to personal preference as far as sounds and user interface.

Both systems offer similar full functional workstation capabilities and are wildly complex and "deep" from a feature standpoint.

Personally, I think the Roland user interface is superior to that of the Yamaha, however I also believe the Motif XS has the better sound set. These are simply my preferences.

At the end of the day, spend a lot of time with each one and see which one feels like an extension of your creative process than simply a tool.

I've owned both Roland Fantom's and Yamaha Motif ES, and I'm a Yammy guy all the way now.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[Tolmon]

Thanks for replying so fast

Tomorrow I will go try these keyboards and see if a special 'feel' develops itself with either one of them...as you said.

I understand I will have to chose between "ease of use" and "better sound quality", and I start to believe that it might be wiser to ease the creative process with a better user interface considering the troubles I am already experiencing with Logic which works perfectly but in a cryptic way . I think it is better to do the most with a slightly lesser product, than do little with a better but more complex one But I will wait to try them out...

Would you know if it is possible for the Motif XS to control Logic as it is shown on demos with Cubase AI

 

[meisenhower]

I'm pretty sure you can control Logic with the XS assuming you have installed the correct "Environment" (in this case, Motif XS).

I'd suggest going to the Motifator forum and search the LOGIC section for any threads about integrating XS with Logic. The link is:

http://www.motifator.com/forums/index.php?Cat=1,2,4

You can check in both the Logic and the XS areas and if you don't find your exact answer, just post a question.

Obviously Cubase AI4 is fully integrated with XS since it was developed with a partnership between Steinberg and Yamaha, so the operation between the XS and AI4 is totally seamless. It's good enough, that if you were to opt into the XS, you may want to change DAW platforms too, but that's often a personal choice.

Good luck.

 

[Tolmon]

...I will check this website

Also I will post a note stating which keyboard I chose...


Thank you for your time , I very much appreciate...

 

[KMK]

Roland vs. Yamaha

I have both the Fantom G and the Motif XS (and the ES). The Fantom is easier to sequence on, but when you learn the Motif, it really doesn't matter. The soundset of the Motif XS is superior, in my opinion, but let your ears be your guide.

You won't go wrong with either of them.

 

[Tolmon]

Hey KMK!

Thank you for your input,

Since you own both the keyboards in question:

1) Why did you buy both if they are so similar?

2) I never used any synth or workstation before so I am definitely a beginner. Would you say that the Motif XS 's user interface is accessible enough to someone like me? I have no one to train me or advice me on the matter...

3) What about the Fantom G, is there a chance of getting even better sounds with the future ARX cards?

4) Which one, would you say, is better suited for studio use essentially?


I am afraid that I won't be able to use the Motif XS as I would like to because of the interface but also that I won't be 'turned on ' by as many sounds on the Fantom as I could be on the Motif. So you see my dilemma...

It seems to me that the harder the interface the more knowledge and background you need in order to use the instrument. On the other hand if the interface is easy and intuitive, then you are able to learn as you use the instrument.

Well...I believe I will soon stop annoying you guys and start growing myself some balls!

Thanks !

 

[kanthos]

You already use Logic. I'd suggest you treat the Motif or Fantom as a combination controller keyboard/rack unit and do all the sequencing in Logic. You'll have to learn a bit of new stuff, but as I've argued in another thread, if all you're doing is picking sounds, the Motif won't be too hard to use (nor will any other keyboard). I'd use the Motif to play into Logic, have Logic record the MIDI data and push it back out to the Motif for playback. If this appeals to you, I'd go with the Motif, because it'll sound better out of the box (and without the need for spending more money on expansion cards too).

 

[Tolmon]

Thanks Kanthos

I understand what you've just said...but I am curious:

What is the difference between the DAW/Controller Keyboard/Rack combination and DAW/Workstation? What more/less can you do with the DAW/Workstation combination regarding studio use essentially?

 

[jpscoey]

'

Hi there, I am not (yet!) an expert in this area, but I'm working on it and know
enough to give you a basic answer to the above question.

The DAW/Workstation combination would consist of your DAW plus a keyboard containing
your sound banks (sometimes referred to as voices).

In the other combination your sound bank is contained within the rack unit, then you
would have a seperate keyboard with which to 'control' it.

The reason this can be handy is that these MIDI controller keyboards are designed
specifically with this purpose in mind, and usually have a greater number of hands-on
controls such as knobs, sliders and buttons with which to manipulate the sounds/effects etc.
So you end up with three seperate units which each have a specific function.

This is absolutely ideal for producing home-studio music, but not so good for performing.

The difference with a workstation is that it is designed to do 'everything'...
so from playing the original idea, to ending up with a finished recording - obviously, in your case,
with the assistance of the DAW - it's pretty much 'self-contained'.

The main difference you will notice is that the actual 'feel' of the keyboard is
more user friendly, from a playing/performance point of view, on the workstation
compared to the controller keyboard - these tend to be very 'plasticy' & flimsy in feel
(although they are getting better).
You would certainly notice the difference in comparison to your FP-3.

If, however, you don't intend to perform live using this set-up you may well be
best off with the rack/controller option.

To illustrate the point I'm (badly I think!) trying to make have a look at the Korg Radias below - the keyboard is basically a seperate unit from the 'rack', which contains all the good stuff!

 

[meisenhower]

To add a bit to what Jpscoey has said, consider this as a little more background:

A DAW (any DAW) is both a control surface, midi sequencer and digital recorder.

You can get "voices" ie' sounds into your DAW from a number of different sources. Primary "sources" are:

HARDWARE:

This can be like any keyboard or synth, module or rack or drum machine, sampler, and can generate sound and/or be triggered via midi data. Think of ANY keyboard or module that produces audio and transmits and receives midi and that fits into this category.

SOFTWARE:

These are soft synths, samplers and live in the computer domain as "virtual" instruments and "plug in's". They behave exactly like their hardware counterpart, except they require a computer to operate them and do not "stand alone". Examples are: Arturia Minimoog V, Prophet V, Kontakt, CORE, BFD, Strike, NI B4 and the list goes on and on.

These "instruments" are plugged into your track virtually and controlled via their individual control center on your PC.


HYBRID/COMBO:

These are hardware synths, modules and racks that can ALSO be recognized by a DAW as a plug in or "virtual" VSTi instrument. Motif XS is an example of a hardware/virtual synth. If you plug Motif XS into your PC and into your DAW with a USB cable, and launch it's control environment, you can control EVERY aspect of Motif XS from via your DAW, just like if you were actually twisting the knobs and pressing buttons on the synth. You can call it up in your DAW like any other "soft synth" and never touch the physical keyboard.

Other synths that can be controlled virtually are: Virus Ti, Korg M3 & M50, Roland G and many others.

If you're an absolute beginner with workstations and the depth of their functions, I would not recommend Motif XS. It's WAAAYYYY deep, powerful and can be daunting to even the most experienced workstation users to get the full power out of it.

I think the same can be said for the Fantom G, although it's user interface is easer to navigate, it's still a beast from a performance and function standpoint.

If you're not going to do any live performance with your workstations and have no need for onboard sequencing and sampling, I'd look elsewhere for a solution. If you buy Motif XS or Fantom G, you'll be spending a ton of money for features you'll never use. Rack modules to be coupled with Logic is the way you'll want to go if you want those fab sounds.

That said, if you want to get into learning an onboard workstation with advanced sequencing features, buy a used "original" Motif or an original Fantom FA-76 or Fantom Xa. You'll spend a lot less money to cut your teeth on the workstation and once you've mastered those babies, then the new ones won't be such a shock to the system.

I hope this didn't further confuse things!!

 

[Tolmon]

...not at all Meisenhower, you made this quite clear and both Jpscoey and you reassured me on that matter and I thank you for that because it is true I always aim too high and at the end of the day I get disappointed and loose a lot of energy and motivation in the process.

Now if I follow your advice which is what I think I will do...will I need a controller keyboard? If yes could you advice me on some models? Since I have a Roland FP-3
with a good hammer weighted key action, and assuming I need to buy a keyboard controller, what sort of key action would you say I should get?

 

[meisenhower]

Tolmon:

If all your looking to do is play and transmit midi data to your DAW and trigger a VSTi, soft synth of module, your FP3 will do just nicely (as it has both midi in and out)

As long as you're not expecting to control multiple modules, need to change midi channels on the fly or do splitting, layering or other function requiring zone mapping, you're already all set.

On the other hand, if you want more control (ie, assignable knobs and sliders) to map to your daw and VSTi's, you have many choice from Korg, M-Audio, Novation, E-mu and others.

Personally, for some quickie stuff, I have an E-MU Xboard 49 which is great for controlling soft synths and is easy to map. It has 16 control knobs and a nice PC interface. Since you don't need weighted keys, you can accomplish this pretty inexpensively. Shop around and talk to your local guys and see what looks good to you. Many many choices in this arena.

You can spend as little as $99 USD or as much as $2000 USD on this particular animal.

 

[jpscoey]

That very much depends on the type of music you are writing.
If, for example, you are in the electronic/techno/dance music field, than you
would not neccessarily need a keyboard at all - indeed my son does exactly this.

If, however, you are composing flowing passages of music with lots of expression &
subtle nuances that you play in 'real-time' (record from start to finish, then 'tweak' later) you definitely would want a good quality action.
This does not have to be a controller keyboard - any MIDI-compatible keyboard
could perform this task (I had a quick look at the FP-3 & it doesn't appear to have MIDI connections).

You should concentrate on the 'touch' if this is a requirement.

Things to consider are -

1. 'velocity sensitive' - the harder you play the key, the louder the sound.

2. 'aftertouch' - while holding a key down, you can press a little firmer & this
will activate such (programmable) things as modulation (tremelo/vibrato etc).

If you go for this option consider any in-built sounds a bonus!


.

 

[jpscoey]

.

Apologies Meisenhower - I was obviously writing my reply at the same time as you!

As I said, a quick glance at rolands website & it only mentioned audio-out in
the blurb - so I stand corrected!

 

[Tolmon]

Jpscoey,

Actually the Roland FP-3 has Midi In & Out and it is already plugged into a 2x2 Midisport Interface which is connected to my Mac. This is the set-up I have been using until now

Regarding the music I will be writing...I am planning to try a bit of everything so I can learn and be fluent in as many styles as I can.

...I always thought that one would need a fully weighted key action only to be used for piano. Is that kind of key action really necessary for the other instruments? Also if I need to play the epiano or the organ, couldn't I use my FP-3 as a master keyboard and switch later to my controller keyboard?

I think I will go for a controller keyboard but I am still a bit confused about the kind of action I should get...

Meisenhower, I will look into the models you suggested...

I am new to forums and I just have to say that I am really amazed by the quality and amount of info one can get out of them...and I would like to insist on how much I appreciate the time you managed to give me in order to answer my questions and provide me with very useful advice. It almost makes me uncomfortable!

 

[jpscoey]

.

For Heaven's sake, don't feel uncomfortable... these forums exist for precisely
that reason! - give & take!

Regarding the touch issue, as I said in my previous post, I was mistaken regarding MIDI on the FP-3 so you've got your bases covered on that score.

If you want authenticty whilst playing organ sounds & the like go for a synth-action
keyboard.

Bear in mind the point I made about velocity/aftertouch.

A real organ does not have these features of course, so you should de-activate them
when playing 'instruments' of this type (off the top of my head, piano-accordian also falls into this catagory - maybe somewhat appropriate as you are in Paris!).

If, however, you were playing, say, a saxophone sound, aftertouch provides a means of introducing that 'rasping' sound where the player 'over-blows' the reed. Very effective.

Considering that there is usually not that much of a difference in price between
61-note & 76-note keyboards, I would suggest you go for the 76.
It is very frustrating when you are in mid-flow and realise you are about to run
out of keys!

There are quite a few choices to consider in this area of the market, so let us
know what your thoughts are & we can take it from there.

PS- I admire your desire to not restrict yourself to one genre... after all, variety
IS the spice of life!


.

 

[jpscoey]

'

By the way - you should take a close look at the Motif XS7 - I recently acquired one
of these magnificent instruments & the sounds are awesome, as is the playability.

Its' interface is also not as difficult to operate as you may imagine - most things follow a logical
path and, other than it's technical capabilities, it's great FUN!

Also, regarding an earlier post, I currently own a Roland FA76 and find the Motif much
more intuitive to operate - maybe it's just me!.... but as Meisenhower rightly said: you need to find
out for yourself which instrument you feel most comfortable with.


.

 

[KMK]

Get the Motif XS, it is not impossible to learn and there is always www.motifator.com to help you with any difficulties that you may encounter. Trust me, you won't be disappointed.

 

[Burn4Him]

I think they are very similar workstations for what your trying to do, however if you ever want to go further with the keyboard the motif will be more adaptive.

in the end its whatever you feel more comfortable with.

I know this is a bit late of a post, i would be interested in finding out what choice you made.