Yamaha Motif XS or Roland Fantom G or X ??

[Siamon]

First of all hello.

Well what i would like to do is to record my songs in a professional manner. The songs are in midi format, because I write em using guitarpro. Of course, we cant except a great sound quality from windows general midi. Thats why I decided to buy a keyboard and re-record them for an industry-standart sound.

What I expect from the keyboard is [what I ll be using most], extremely realistic electric bass sounds, strings sounds, powerful organ sounds, computer connectivity. I will not use the keyboard as a standalone workstation, as most of the process I ll be doing will require additional instruments & mastering like drums and guitars.

I heard someone said Roland>Sonar, and Yamaha>Cubase. I do not have an idea on both. But what the software should be able to do is, it should be able to change the time signature and the tempo within the same song, therefore I could record my songs which have very unusual arrangments & time sigs.

So I explanied most of the process I'll be doing, the computer-connectivity is really important for me. Yamaha XS comes with a special version of cubase, does it respond to my expectations? Or Sonar? Any else software you can recommend to me? Thanks..

 

[evergreenthompson]

Welcome to the forums, Siamon! I'll take a stab at answering your post. What you are asking is a bit too general for anyone to really answer you, but hopefully this will help you narrow things down. (And hopefully I won't be too confusing.) You ask a lot of questions, so this is a bit long....


It appears you've got multiple requirements muddying up each other. Splitting them apart will better help you get what you are after.

Windows general MIDI sound quality is poor. If I understand this piece of the puzzle correctly, what will fix this is one or more of:

• better sound card
• better speakers (you'll probably need external speakers for the keyboard anyway)
• better MIDI software and/or instrument voice plug-ins

Keyboard sounds. Good, you know what instruments voices are must-haves in terms of high quality. Some makes and model lines are just better at some voices than others. At the same time, you may prefer how a particular make/model produces a particular voice than another, even if that rendering is technically rendered better by a different keyboard.

Example, some people like the Yamaha piano sound best, some like the Roland piano sound best, etc. They all have a grand piano sound, but that sound is slightly different between makes and sometimes between model lines.

The number one best, and generally only, way to determine whether the sounds will be acceptable to you is for you to test drive the keyboards yourself. Keep in mind that the listening environment in many music shops will likely be subpar at best. Try to adjust volume levels on the monitor speakers to consistent levels. You may also want to ask to borrow a pair of good headphones. (Don't forget to turn the keyboard volume level way down when plugging/unplugging the headphones, and gradually increase from there. No need to go deaf during the test drive!)


Computer connectivity. Generally, every non-toy keyboard includes MIDI (musical instrument digital interface). You will find MIDI ports (In, Out, and sometimes Thru) and/or a MIDI-USB port (MIDI via a USB port). For best connectivity between other instruments and your computer, aim for a keyboard that has MIDI In, Out and MIDI-USB ports. MIDI Thru is a bonus if you find it, but many (most?) keyboards do not have one of those.


Software. As you've seen, some keyboards come with software. But don't base your decision on that as a significant feature. Remember, the software you get will most likely be the base-level edition. Not a bad thing, and can save you some money, unless you want the more fully-featured "pro" edition. Also, you may ultimately prefer one application over another. If you read through the posts here, you'll discover some people favor Cubase, while others prefer Sonar, while others are perfectly happy with free, open-source applications like Audacity. To be happiest, you should give the demos as try, so that you'll know which one works the best for you and the kind of music you want to create.

(Take note: not all software will export to all the formats you expect. For example, Cakewalk Music Maker will not create MP3 files without purchasing a separate add-on for that.)

Additionally, many keyboards come with plug-in and standalone software specific to the keyboard. This software lets you adjust various settings on your computer instead of via the myriad of buttons and controls on the keyboard. Also, the software often provides your MIDI software with the instrument voices your keyboard can produce. That way the MP3s (or other format) audio files your mixing software (like Cubase, etc.) generates will have the sound you were expecting.


Finally, don't limit yourself to the big guns of Yamaha Motif XS and Roland Fantom. There is a good chance a less featured, lower-cost keyboard will fit your needs much better. Perhaps a Yamaha MO or Roland Juno will be more than enough for what you want to do, and you'll save a ton of cash compared to the other models. Try out other brands too, to see how they fit what you are looking for.


Good luck, and keep us posted. We're here to help!

 

[AdamGBB]

Finally, don't limit yourself to the big guns of Yamaha Motif XS and Roland Fantom.

Yeah, there's the Triton range

But alas, my 2 cents...
I say this without ever properly trying out the Fantom or the Triton, but I would think that it would be impossible to merely sum up how either two will/will not suit you. I think E.T's right, you really need to test these 2 out and get comfortable with them.

 

[Siamon]

first of all thank you for helpful answers..

well there IS software that can play midi stuff in new-well developed-great sounding sound banks like reason etc.. but I really dont like reason because it has not the ability of changing time signature or tempo without plug-ins or automations from the inputted midi.

Actually, in the terms of software, I search something basic, like that: First of all I enter all the bars to a tempo track [like 7/8 x8 bars, 4/4 x16 bars, 3/4 x24 bars etc] and start recording from the keyboard on THAT track that I have created. I should also be able to import drums from written midi easily & effectively.

Besides that, the reason I do not want to use software is,>>>> actually I WANT to be able to play keyboards =). Actually I play drums and guitar for about 10 years, meaning that I'm a drummer actually, but I dont think that its too late to start playing keyboards [I'm 19 right now] because its all about technic for me, because I already know theory, composition and mixing.

So, to summarize, I would like to have a keyboard which I could be able to use for many years as a production center, and that keyboard should be able to do everything I&you&them can imagine, because in music, theres no boundaries.. So which software & keyboard do you recommend?

 

[kanthos]

I'd suggest using software anyway. By all means, get a good keyboard to play and set it up so that the MIDI you generate on the keyboard gets recorded in your software and sent back out to the keyboard to generate the audio (which will be nicer on older computers than running a bunch of virtual instruments), but sequencers on a keyboard just don't compare to software. There's only so much you can do on a keyboard in that regard. You're limited because of things like the small display and the inability to use much more than buttons, sliders, and a touch screen.

I'm a Cubase fan, but there are plenty of good choices out there. Audacity is free but not really good for working with MIDI; it's really more of an audio editor, not a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation).

 

[evergreenthompson]

What kind of music do you intend to create? Some software includes features better suited toward creating some kinds of music than others.

 

[Siamon]

I have already created the music, using guitarpro to compose & preview. Its totally about 85-90minutes. ----The main idea in my head was, as a drummer, but also a musician of course, I will write the music all by myself and maybe someday I'll find someone to play my music. To make the long story short, I cannot wait for this opportunity [maybe a utopia] anymore, and thats why I decided to play them all myself.-----

So in conclusion, the tracklist would go basicly like this: Guitars, Drums, Bass, Keyboards. Thats all.



@kanthos: DAWs sound quality can reach xs or fantom? any DAW software include the thing I mentioned above? [the tempo track/the structure track. because I saw something like that on a laptop screen while watching dream theater's "making of 6doit". the slider was moving, a counter was counting the beats, another was counting the bars].

 

[evergreenthompson]

I'm not asking the question right...

What genre of music? Most DAW software should be able to handle most any genre. Some have features specifically tailored to help you work with particular genres more easily.

Another question... What computer/operating system do you have?

 

[kanthos]

A DAW has no concept of "sound quality". It doesn't create sounds; it hosts plugins which make sounds or works with audio data. If you're recording data from your keyboard, the sound quality is dependent on the keyboard you buy; if you work with virtual instruments or samples (pre-recorded audio that gets played back in response to your MIDI data), the quality of the sound depends on the instruments or samples.

Many DAWs have a tempo track or something equivalent; Cubase certainly does. FL Studio had that capability indirectly. It may have improved since I used that software, but less than 2 years ago, it was confusing and limited.

 

[Siamon]

@evergreen: progressive / experimental

@kanthos: I have reason installed with great sounds, but the drums are too electric-music-oriented. so drums suck for me. Unfortunetely I dont have a recording studio to play drums myself. That would be the best of course.

 

[Siamon]

I have read and listened and watched every possible video-audio-review of the both keyboards on internet. I have found more sources of the motif xs.

Heres what the general thought is: R

oland has more bread&butter patches which sound flat and dry, and you can make your own patches mixing - layering them. This way you can have a very dry sound, and the opposite, a very complex and maybe brite sound.

Yamaha comes already with multiple-element sounds which are unnecessarily overbright. And you cant manipulate them to a dryer sound. They are "sonically overbright" they say. I read that "piano on a yamaha xs sounds like it has bells layered to it" and they say they cant get em dry.

The things I wrote above are a summary of what I read on internet. What I hear? I hear that motif's sounds are really unbelievable, and far beyond the fantom g. But how can I know the potential of the fantom g, without using it? Because I do that layering thing in GM all the time, unisoning tracks with different instruments to sound like a single real instrument.

One more thing, is motif interface is really difficult to get used to than motif? Actually It will not effect me very much, since the gear I will buy is gonna be my first keyboard [not meaning the keyboard I'm typing to right now].