Shopping for new keyboard amp, some specifics needed, thoughts?

[msimon7]

Hello,
I just got a new Roland Juno DS 76 and plugging it in, realized quickly me old amp doesn't cut it.
I used to play in a blues/rock/jam band in the 90s, been a while since playing, but jumping back in.

My old setup was a Rhodes M-760 (bit the dust and replaced with DS76), also have an Ensoniq Mirage that I used solely for midi control of my Micro B organ module. My amps are a Yorkville Bloc B80 and Motion Sound Pro-3. I would run the keyboard into the Hi input of the Yorkville and the Micro B into the Pro-3 with the low rotor simulator going into the lo input of the Yorkville.
I always thought (not having anything to compare too) that my old keyboard sound was not full or warm. Now plugging the new Roland into the same setup I quickly see (hear) it the amp. The yorkville is more of a bass amp.

So I would love to hear your experience and thoughts on a good keyboard amp. I'm looking for something with ...
* multiple inputs, need at least 2 noted above, more the better as I play harp too and my old 4x10 tweed tube amp died, so an extra input as a stop gap would be nice or maybe my kid's electronic drum kit
* nice full sound. anything probably better than current, but something aimed towards keys and has good range
* at least a 3 band EQ - to shape any deficiencies of the amp
* more on the budget side of price

This amp caught my eye, Behringer Ultratone K900FX, has just about all the features I'm interested in. Wondering about the sound quality/fullness, decent bass?

thanks for any suggestions!

 

[paulmapp8306]

Personally, Id look at a powered PA top - you will probably need a little mixer as well though at your price point.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DBR10--yamaha-dbr10-700w-10-inch-powered-speaker

with

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Mix8--mackie-mix8-8-channel-compact-mixer

I get the budget thing - but that combo gives you more control and a LOT better sound.

If you want the 12" driver https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DBR12--yamaha-dbr12-800w-12-inch-powered-speaker
for not a lot more.

You could always see how you get on without the mixer (as you have 2 inputs anyway) - it just adds the EQ and the extra inputs you want.

 

[happyrat1]

As your setup grows what you need for home use is a pair of studio monitors. I own and recommend the Presonus Eris E5 models.

Amazon.com: PreSonus 2 X Eris E5 Two-Way Active 5.25" Studio Monitor, 102dB Max SPL, Each: Musical Instruments

Buy PreSonus 2 X Eris E5 Two-Way Active 5.25" Studio Monitor, 102dB Max SPL, Each: Studio Monitors - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

AND you should look into getting a small mixer to handle all your FX, EQ and Input needs.

A good starter Mixer is the Behringer Xenyx 1002FX with ten channels and 100 built in FX.

Amazon.com

For playing out if you get to that point, then you should either plug your mixer into the house PA or into your existing amps if you haul them along.

(Ignore the bot alert messages. The links are from Amazon and their scripts block embedded links.)

Gary

 

[paulmapp8306]

As Gary says, if it's for home then 5" studio monitors and a mixer. (I have the one Gary mentions but it's a backup now).

My monitor recommendations would be too pricey as I always go Adam, focal, neumann or dynaudio. As such I defer to gary and others as to what's good at the cheaper end of the market.

 

[Biggles]

Another vote for PreSonus Eris from me.

I did not want to pay for the 5” so bought a pair of the 4.5” which are 25W and sound great.

I also have a Behringer 1002 mixer but mine is the B version hence it can be battery powered it does all I currently want and it is great vfm.

If you want an amp checkout a Vox VX50KB, 8” speaker 50W and all in a small form factor that looks good.

 

[anotherscott]

Yeah, with that Yorkville only having a single 15" speaker, it won't have any of the high frequency response you want for keys.

If it's for home use, I think the others have it right... a stereo pair and a mixer. A pair of JBL 305P and a Mackie Mix8 would be a nice combination at about the same price as the amp you're looking at.

 

[msimon7]

Thank you guys again. And thanks for making my head spin - LOL But appreciate the eye (or ear) opener!

I see where you are coming from with the studio monitors.
When I was in the music store checking out the Roland keyboards, they had the DS88 hooked up to a pair of stereo monitors - and my goodness did it sound amazing - which also made me quickly realize how my old setup at home was so inferior. Going to call them to find out what they have connected, and if they had a sub connected to it as well.

Do the stereo monitors mentioned have good bass?
One thing I was thinking of was if they (or others) have a sub-out, I could maybe pipe that into my Yorkville(?) if they are lacking. I'm still keeping my Yorkville as it serves a great role as a low rotor emulator for my spinning horn which has the low rotor out on it. Plus I can use that as my temporary harp amp until I buy or fix my tube amp.

My old bandmates want to get back together and start playing virtually (jamkazam or jamulus), and I'm really psyched to do so...even tho I'll be rusty as hell - nothing a few beers can't fix... or at least mask

So I do need a mixer too and appreciate the suggestions. Since I need a mixer that has USB out for virtual jamming too, I'm looking for one with low latency (the virtual jam killer). My friend (the guitar player) mentioned M-Audio AIR 192|14 USB Audio Interface as that has 8-in-4-out and super low-latency. Looks very nice, just wish it had tone control by channel like the ones you guys mentioned.

Budget be damned apparently OK less than a new car at least
So if I had to re-ask my question for your experienced thoughts, I'm seeking....
* Great pair of stereo monitor speakers - good full range, prefer a sub-out if I can pipe into my Yorkville
* Mixer with 4 inputs, individual tone/eq/volume per channel, 6+ inputs even better (future proof), and LOW latency USB out as well

Thank you all as always, glad I found this forum! take care

 

[paulmapp8306]

OK - ley deal with this in pieces.

Studio monitors have good enough bass generally. the more you pay, the better and the larger cones the better. You can add a sub if our doing really low end stuff, but generally its not needed.

Generally monitors wont have a sub out - if you using a sub you would normally feed that first as they have filters, them feed the monitors from them.

You dont "need" a mixer - you can connect the DS directly to the monitors.

Having said the above, adding a mixer adds functionality. For instance your mixer may have a sub out which you can utilise if/when needed. You can connect a playbed device (phone, PC whatever) and play backing tracks at the same time (though some keyboards have an aux in that allows this - I dont know if the DS does or doesnt). It also acts as a hub should you add other things down the line. Mixers in themselves dont have latency (well they will but so so small).

If you want to virtual Jam, yes you will need an interface BUT some mixers already act as a USB interface in their own right, so kill both birds and get one that can do this.

OK - recommendations. Mixer/audio interface first.

Depends if you want to record multiple tracks at once. Some mixers like the Yamaha MG mixers are 2 in 2 out - meaning you get a stereo feed from your PC to the mixer (to send to your monitors) and the master mix goes into the PC to record (or jam). This may be enough. However others like a Soundcraft signature MTK series are multiple in/out (in my case 12 in 14 out) meaning I can record up to 12 channels onto 12 different DAW tracks at the same time - and can feed up to 14 individual tracks back (and mix them on the mixer for playback). You nee3d to know which you need. Having said that both options are great.

So - if 2 in/2 out is OK the Yamaha MG10XU is perfect (linked to an EU store - just for info).

https://www.thomann.de/gb/yamaha_mg10_xu.htm

If you feel you will need multiple ins and outs - the Soundcraft Signature 12 MTK (which is what I have) is the smallest with the in/out capability. Might be a bit gig for you, but its works VERY nicely.

Soundcraft Signature 12MTK

12 Channel Mixer 8 Mono inputs, 2 Stereo inputs, 3 Band EQ with swept mids, 2 Mic channels with built-in dbx compressor/limiter, 3 AUX sends, Solo/Mute switch, Built-in Lexicon effects device, Peak LED per channel, Integrated power supply, 60 mm...

www.thomann.de

Personally I think the Yamaha would suit your needs better - at least for now. your only playing one thing (is you dont have several synths that your sequencing and want to record into separate DAW tracks) so 2 in 2 out should be fine, and its a smaller footprint and cheaper.

OK - speakers... This is more tricky. You really need a budget AND a room size. If your in a small room, where speakers need to be close to a wall - your better with smaller speakers (5" or under) and front ports. sticking big real ported speakers in that room would cause a lot of issues. If your in a larger space, and speakers can be placed away from a wall - then bigger speakers offer more bass, and rear ports are fine.

As I dont know either room size or budget - Ill suggest a few.

Small room - from most expensive to cheapest:

Neunann KH120s - most expensive (a lot more than your DS cost)
Focal Shape 50s (next cheapest)
Adam A5x
Prosonus Eris 5 (a big jump down the price range)

All above are great (at their price points) and front ported (or in the Focals case no ports - just a passive radiator, which is fine).

if your room is small - BUT you can place the speakers a couple of feet from the wall, then small cones but rear ported should be fine. That opens up another couple of speakers (again from most expensive down)

Dynaudio LYD5
Eve Audio SC205
Yamaha HS5
KRK Rocket G4

If you have a larger room and can place speakers away from the the wall - then larger 7" options may suit better, though if the room is bigger and you still need to place speakers close to a wall (which can be the case) stick with the front ported ones (Ill star those) Again expensive to cheap.

Eve Audio SC208
Focal Shape 65 *
Adam Ax7 *
Dynaudio LYD7
Yamaha HS7
KRK Rocket RP8 *

To be honest - there all great - again at their repatice price points. There are others as well, but these are the ones Id suggest. Personally I dont like the KRKs but there are many that do - so ive included them. Best "value" (ie bang for buck) is probably the Yamaha HS - but there rear ported, so not great if there near walls, and again I prefer others. Personally, just based on budget (ie not taking into account room size or placement) If do the Neumann KH120s for top end, Prosonus Eris 5 for bottom end, the Adam A5x int he middle. BUT thats just me.

If you can narrow down the budget, and give some room information I (well WE) can narrow down your choices somewhat.

 

[msimon7]

Thank you kindly for the detail - that is impressive!

I talked to the Music store to learn what monitors they had that I heard when there. Turns out they were JBL LSR 305, with no sub.
So that is great, in the sense that they were 5" monitor speakers within the range of what I was looking to spend.
After reading yours and others notes, and learning what I heard in the music store, I opted to buy two PreSonus Eris E5 XT 5.25", arriving Saturday from Amazon. The pair is roughly what I was targeting for my budget. They are the updated version of Prosonus Eris 5. Reading about the enhancements and some youTube comparison videos, seemed like that was the way to go.

My practice area, by the way, is 9' x 22' - though I'm only using 9' x 10' of it for my gear (it's also our storage room )

I think I need to spend more time figuring out the Mixer/audio interface.
I will have the need for 4 inputs at a minimum. (1) DS, either mic'd or direct + (2&3) ProSound & Yorkville, both mic'd + Harp Amp, mic'd.
It would be nice to have 2 more to spare (microphone and possible electronic drums).
As you mentioned, I think I would prefer to feed out individual track if I get to home recording, rather mix in a DAW.
The number one the Mixer/audio interface goal is low-latency USB for our virtual jams sessions. I realize that the mixer-via-usb should not add latency, but when it comes to trying to play together remotely...every little bit counts.
I'm wondering if a decent mixer, then fed to a simple/singular low latency interface is an option. no idea, and don't want to spend a ton to "try it". OK to spend if it works, but money doesn't grow on trees

if anyone interested, found a thread/page from the jamkazam forum where they are trying to track what interfaces work
https://forum.jamkazam.com/showthread.php?tid=196

thanks again for any and all insights!

 

[paulmapp8306]

You could use a mixer AND an audio interface. That would work just as well as a mixer that is its own interface. The downside is 2 bits of kit - probably more expensive (well definitely if you want a lot of inputs rather than mixing down to stero then just feeding that into the OC). The up side is you get to choose from a lot more mixers (so maybe youll find one with the right channels and features) and can pick a decent interface as well.

If you go that way, Id look at mixers from Behringer, Yamaha and Machie
For interfaces., its a no brainer for me. Focusrite

All of those manufacturers aller plenty of models for plenty of options.

You will actually need 2 inputs for the DS (or a single stereo input) as you'll get far nicer results in stereo. ditto electronic drums if you end up going that was. As such you should really look for an 8 channel mixer. A stereo/twin mono input for DS, and other pair for drums, one for vocal mic, one for harp, one for prosound and one for yorkville.

so - mixer plus audio interface. Focusrite scarlett 18i8 gives you 8 inputs - at £320 (no idea where you are BUT it will give you some idea and some comparative prices) and a Behringer Xenyx 1202 FX is an 8 channel mixer at about £70. so approx £400 to go that route.

Behringer do a 2 in 2 out (so mix down to stereo and then feed a single stereo feed into a DAW) version of the same mixer for £100 - and thats probably the way to go cost wise if your happy with just that stereo feed to the PC.

If you want multiple ins/outs direct from the desk - then the cheapest I can think of is the Soundcraft Signature 12 MTK (make sure its the MTK - that stands for multitrack). Its 12 ins not 8 though.

Pros and cons.

The Soundcraft mixer is better quality than the Behringer, but probably not as good an interface as the Focusrite (though its what I use and I have no complaints).

There area other things to think about though.

If you have seperate mixer and interface - you dont need the interface live and you dont meed the mixer at home (connect everything up tot he interface, and plug you Eris speakers into that to hear everything). Consequently your carrying a smaller mixer to live venus, and have a smaller footprint at home - and wont have to strip the interface out when you go live.

Its a relatively small thing but worth considering.

Personally Id go the mixer route IF you have the space, and IF your not going live regularly (that is once a week or more) - which is what I did. BUT that is me, and others will say go the other way (and I do sometimes wish I had a focusrite for nbo itehr reason than there great and Ive never had one).

Finally - there is one more way to go. Thats pick up a Behringer X16 air mixer. This is a digital mixer. Its a box rather than a traditional mixer - and you need a PC/Tablet for the mixer interface. HOWEVER, its 16 in 16 out - you can run the mixer on you PC at home to control everything, and either a laptop (wired) or tablet (wireless) at a gig. This means you can have the mixer in front of you at a gig while the hardware is tucked away on the floor. Im actually considering this myself (we use one in one of my bands).

Cost wise - the 16 channel version is about £310 so its definitely an option ---- IF you already have the hardware (PC/Laptop/Tablet etc) to run the mixer software... AND you dont mind booting up/having on said PC/laptop/tablet in order for the mixer to work. Thats where Im fighting myself. I have the PC - and it is generally on anyway BUT if it isnt, or if it dies the mixer is useless. I do have an old laptop for gigs (wired) but I dont have a tablet. If I can justify a tablet AND the mixer - I can velcro the tablet to the mixer so I can use it even if the POC is off at home - and I have a live mixer surface as well. im still trying to decide here. The big plus for me - is not only is it a mixer, but it has EQs (like in a DAW), FX, channel compression etc etc etc all onboard. for live its GREAT, and offers a lot more control at home IF you need it......


A lot to wade through - but hope it helps.

 

[happyrat1]

I use my Presonus E5's in a similar sized space and they can easily fill the room. And the bass response is surprisingly, amazingly good. You won't need a sub with these.

As for a mixer, whatever brand you end up choosing, make sure to get at least 4 or 6 extra channels for future expansion.

You may not need the extra channels right away but eventually you might add another tier or a module or two to the mix.

With my rig I use a Juno DS88, a Behringer Model D Moog Clone, a Ferrofish B4000+ Drawbar Organ and an Alesis Samplepad Pro all plugged into a really cheap but sturdy 8 Channel Chinese mixer I picked up from Amazon.

Similar to this one.

Amazon.com: Rockville LINE8 8 Channel Line/Mic Mixer/Stereo/Mono/Battery Operated or Adapter: Musical Instruments

Buy Rockville LINE8 8 Channel Line/Mic Mixer/Stereo/Mono/Battery Operated or Adapter: Mixers - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

It's all I really need since I run a Mic thru the input on the DS88 for vocals.

Gary

 

[happyrat1]

Here's a diagram of my setup.

Gary

 

[happyrat1]

BTW, for external FX I run the whole thing thru a Zoom ms-70cdr FX pedal. Really juices up the sounds.

Amazon.com

It's my practice rig and it kicks ass.

Gary

 

[paulmapp8306]

I use the same ms-70cdr BUT I only use it on my Virus, and only for one sound (used to be on Peak - but I changed they synth providing the sound). Its Dyna Flange model is just perfect for early Duran Duran sweeps.

 

[happyrat1]

It really is the best little FX unit I've ever used. Small, sturdy, durable, and oh so simple to control. I picked up a second one for my bedroom recording studio and hooked it up to the Kurzweil PC3K.

Gary

 

[paulmapp8306]

My only problem with it - is that Peak has quite a hot output, and I had to keep it below about 1/3 to stop the Zooms digital converters clipping..... and as its not true bypass it did loose some beef so I had to use it in a loop as well. Not the end of the world but it did annoy me a little.

With Virus, I just have the Zoom on OP 3. Clipping isnt an issue from Virus and it only affects the sounds I route to that output - so I dont even have to remember to turn it on/off live - its auto selected in the patches.

 

[happyrat1]

In the living room I control the levels with the mixer before they reach the Zoom.

Likewise I adjust all my levels in the studio before I record.

Gary

 

[msimon7]

Hey guys, I wanted to drop in and say thank you for all the great ideas and sharing your gear setups.
I'm still poking around, but think I'm going down the route of a mixer for all my needs and then a low-latency audio device.
I have officially fallen into the rabbit hole

 

[happyrat1]

Itt'sssss nicccccccceee heere in de rabbit hole...... Yes indeed it issss my precssssscioussssses...

Gary

 

[emsackman]

Hello,
I just got a new Roland Juno DS 76 and plugging it in, realized quickly me old amp doesn't cut it.
I used to play in a blues/rock/jam band in the 90s, been a while since playing, but jumping back in.

My old setup was a Rhodes M-760 (bit the dust and replaced with DS76), also have an Ensoniq Mirage that I used solely for midi control of my Micro B organ module. My amps are a Yorkville Bloc B80 and Motion Sound Pro-3. I would run the keyboard into the Hi input of the Yorkville and the Micro B into the Pro-3 with the low rotor simulator going into the lo input of the Yorkville.
I always thought (not having anything to compare too) that my old keyboard sound was not full or warm. Now plugging the new Roland into the same setup I quickly see (hear) it the amp. The yorkville is more of a bass amp.

So I would love to hear your experience and thoughts on a good keyboard amp. I'm looking for something with ...
* multiple inputs, need at least 2 noted above, more the better as I play harp too and my old 4x10 tweed tube amp died, so an extra input as a stop gap would be nice or maybe my kid's electronic drum kit
* nice full sound. anything probably better than current, but something aimed towards keys and has good range
* at least a 3 band EQ - to shape any deficiencies of the amp
* more on the budget side of price

This amp caught my eye, Behringer Ultratone K900FX, has just about all the features I'm interested in. Wondering about the sound quality/fullness, decent bass?

thanks for any suggestions!

I suggest a QSC K19.2 powered pa speaker. I have a Yamaha s90xs and a Roland very-09 combo Synth organ. I run them try ya Maxkie Mix-8 nicer. This speaker is incredible and handles every ounce of both keyboards. I play in two bands and one is a dance band with two guitars bass drums and three singers and I don’t even go tgru the main part as this little Jem cuts they it all. It is a little pricey at $699 but this is a “you get what you pay for” situation. You won’t be unhappy! By the way I also have my Roland KC550 keyboard amp and this QSC blows it away tonal wise.
hope this helped!