YAMAHA DGX 660 midi communications

[Sparaguak]

Hello, i recently bought dgx 660 and i realised that i can not rename the registration bank name (it only has a number 1-32), so i am getting confused what i have saved to each bank. So i tried to use tablet (android) or pc (windows) with various software (that i can have titles on the buttons) to send bank change messages (msb 0 - lsb 32 and value). None of them worked. I also tried sysex messages (recording them on tablet and sending back to the keyboard) , but nothing worked again. The communication with the keyboard exists (i made it to change voices), but bank change seems impossible. Any help?

Thank you in advance!

 

[anotherscott]

Based on the info in the supplemental downloadable manuals for the DGX-660 "Data List" (which lists MSB/LSB/PC data for things they can be used for) and "MIDI Reference" (which lists the suuported sysex messages), there appears to be no way to call up registrations via MIDI.

 

[Sparaguak]

Thank you for the reply, i guess same goes for the control change, it mentions control change on the midi reference ( https://europe.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/3/739563/dgx660_en_de_fr_es_mr_a0.pdf ) as 0,32 but in 'Recognized' it says 0. I assume it means it won't recognise control changes also, right?

 

[SeaGtGruff]

You cannot call up registrations by MIDI on the DGX as you can do on some of the higher-end Yamaha lines.

But I'm not certain that you're actually trying to do that; it's a bit unclear to me whether you're trying to select a registration or just select a voice from a specific voice bank.

You can select any voice by sending its Bank MSB, Bank LSB, and Program Change, in that order.

Note that you must use the correct values for each, and there can be some confusion about those values due to the way they're numbered.

Within the MIDI messages, each of those three parameters is always numbered from 0 to 127.

But in printed lists, as well as in MIDI software, one or more of those parameters might be numbered from 1 to 128 (i.e., add 1 to its 0-to-127 value), or possibly even from 0 to 16383 or from 1 to 16384. What's so frustrating is that there's no univeral consistency about this, so all you can do is make sure you understand which values are being used in the printed lists you're looking at, as well as in each program or app that you're using, and do any value conversions as needed.

Yamaha's DGX-660 Data List gives the Bank MSB and Bank LSB according to the 0-to-127 numbering scheme-- but then it gives the Program Change according to the 1-to-128 numbering scheme!

If the software you're using expects all three parameters to be in the 0-to-127 format, send the Bank MSB and Bank LSB just as they're listed in the DGX-660 Data List, but subtract 1 from the Program Change value that's listed by Yamaha-- e.g., Acoustic Grand Piano would be Program 0, not Program 1.

If the software you're using expects all three parameters to be in the 1-to-128 format (note: Ableton Live is an example of a program that does this), add 1 to the Bank MSB as listed by Yamaha, and add 1 to the Bank LSB as listed by Yamaha, but send the Program Change value just as Yamaha listed it.

If the software you're using expects the Bank MSB and Bank LSB parameters to be combined into a single value, multiply the Bank MSB times 128, then add the Bank LSB to it. Then you may or may not need to add 1 to the sum, depending on whether the software wants the Bank to be given in the 0-to-16383 or 1-to-16384 format.

If you need to select more than one voice-- e.g., a Main Voice plus a Dual Voice-- you can send multiple Bank and Program values, using the correct MIDI channel for each. The Main Voice is on channel 1, the Dual Voice is on channel 2, and the Split Voice is on channel 3-- unless the software uses the true internal MIDI values, in which case those should be channels 0, 1, and 2, respectively. (I'm convinced that MIDI practices were invented by a bunch of insane people who refused to agree on whether to number things starting with 0-- as they are always, always, always numbered within the actual MIDI computer messages-- or starting with 1 as tiny little human minds are used to seeing.)

Anyway, I think most MIDI songbook types of apps let you send Bank and Program messages on multiple MIDI channels as needed. You should probably even be able to send SysEx messages to select the desired effects (i.e., Reverb Type, Chorus Type, and DSP Type), as well as Control Change messages to set the desired Volume, Reverb Depth, Chorus Depth, DSP Depth, Attack Time, Release Time, Cutoff Frequency, and Filter Resonance fir each of the channels you're trying to set up.

However-- and this is a really big however-- the DGX doesn't let you control the panel voice settings via MIDI the way you can do on higher-end Yamaha models. What I mean is, when you send channel messages to the DGX they are affecting only the "song parts" (i.e., the 16 channels which are used to play back MIDI song files), not the "keyboard parts" (i.e., the Main Voice, Dual Voice, and Split Voice).

There is a way to work around that limitation.

First, go into your DGX function settings and set Local Control to Off, which will prevent the DGX from making any sounds when you play it.

Then set up an app (e.g., Midiflow) which can route MIDI between different apps or devices. You'll want it to receive MIDI from the DGX and send it back to the DGX, which will let you play the DGX as though it were a MIDI keyboard controller that doesn't make any sounds of its own (because its Local Control is turned off), yet the notes you play on the DGX will be bounced back to it so they can be sounded just as though it were a MIDI sound module. I hope that made sense.

Then set up your songbook app so it will send the desired Bank and Program messages to the DGX, along with any other desired messages for the system effects-related settings or the channel settings, and that should let you change voices as you play by selecting a song in the app.

The alternative would be to set up the 32 registrations in the order you want to use them in, so you can choose the registrations from the keyboard itself, but then you'll be limited to 32 registrations at a time, and you'd need to create different sets of registrations and save them as User Files.

 

[SeaGtGruff]

Regarding the Control Changes, when the MIDI Reference says "0, 32" it means CC 0 (Bank MSB) and CC 32 (Bank LSB), and it should respond to both of those messages. I think you already knew what those are, but I'm clarifying that it should respond to both, not merely to the Bank MSB.

 

[SeaGtGruff]

There is another possibility that might work for you.

If you need to select just the Main Voice, I think you should be able to do that without having to use Midiflow or similar MIDI routing app. The DGX has a "Voice 000," which is the "OTS Voice" or "One Touch Setting Voice."

Basically, it should use whatever voice has been selected on channel 1 and copy those settings to the Main Voice. This is normally used with the built-in styles and songs to automatically set the Main Voice based on the style or song you've chosen.

So what you should be able to do is set the Main Voice to Voice 000, then use your songbook app to send the desired Bank and Program values to the DGX and it should change the Main Voice to that selection without having to set up Midiflow to bounce the DGX's MIDI back to itself.

You could try that and see if it works for you.

 

[Sparaguak]

First of all i really really thank you ofr your reaply, thats a brand new manual for me and i will try things, but my knowledge on midi is very limited , so i doubt i will make things right
Trying to make my self clear on what i am trying to do (and forgive my poor english) :
DGX is great electric piano, with great keys and very good appereance. So i bought it during the quarantine, without having the change to try it first in a physical store. I was thinking that i will combine the advantages of a PSR with an electirc piano. After trying it for some days, i realised that things i was able to do in my old (very old) PSR, i am not able to do with DGX and it was kinda frustrating. I dont need many things to do , neither i am a great musician, but i thought things would be easier.
First thing i realised, is that i cannot rename the registrations, so i have to remember (or note down) what rythm and sound i have in every registration, because you choose them only with numbers! The reason that i pick registrations, is that i can change the main voice even from tablet (the only thing i finally made from tablet), in the voice 000 as you said. But i want to change rythms also and even more inportnat, i want to change transpose! And DGX has the transpose function, in a function key with dosens of other choises, so it is impossible to change it fast (you have to go through a menu with many many other functions). That was another frustration, so i realised that the only way to go fast from one song to other, is that registrations, that keep rythm (style), voice AND transpose. But after many many tries, i never made it to change them via table or pc easy, i have to deal with the registration numbers.
But actually this is not the only thing that bothered me on DGX. I foudn out that there is only 1 (!) auto fill in button, so if you play a style in the A section (i hope i say it right) and you want to fill in but NOT go to B section, you just cant to it. Same goes from B to A. My old PSR had more buttons to fill in, it was up to you while playing , if you will just fill in or fill in and change section (A to B, B to A etc). I found a silly way to deal with it (pressing fill in 2 times very fast, makes the fill in (drums) but stays in the same rythm section, but you have to do this really synchrozied, otherwise the result is really funny. (i hope u understand what i am talking about, i really dont know those terms in english). So i thought ok, this is not easy to do while playing, maybe i can use the food pedal to fill in. Nope, u can set up the pedal to do many things, but not that.
Other silly things i found out was for example the 'always on' function about the internal speakers. I have connected external speakers and i want to hear the internal speakers at the same time. It works, u press 'fucntion', u go through dosens of choises and finally you find it and set it to 'always on'. But when you turn keyboard off, that goes back to default and this u cant save anywhere. So sometimes its easier for me to discconnetct the external speakers (if i want to play in low volume), than searching all the functions that they are in one and only button.
More things? I can not mute one channel of a style! if i dont like something in a style, i cant do anything. My old psr had 'mute' key for every channel on styles, DGX doesnt! Thanx god i use some software do edit styles on pc , before i put them on DGX.

So, with this and that, DGX is great piano, i really like the feeling on keys and the sound, but if you want to deal with styles etc, i think is not a good choice. Even if i make it to do some things with midi cc, i think the keyboard should have 2-3 more keys to make things easier and maybe some better firmware to do basics (renaming registrations for example). Ofc its my fault and not Yamaha's fault, they promote it as an electic piano, i foold my self a bit that with 750 € it would do everything

Thank you soooo mcuh for advices, i will try them and let you know if i made it to do something, if not i will get use to it

 

[SeaGtGruff]

It sounds like you are spot-on in your observations about the shortcomings of the DGX-660. The PSR-E models that I own have similar shortcomings, with the exception that some of the PSR-E400-level models do let you toggle the style parts on and off-- although they have only six Track Control buttons and there are eight style parts, so some of the parts are paired together and can't be toggled on and off separately.

 

[Sparaguak]

yes, my real problem is how to control the functions during playing, this is why i was looking how to control the organ with a tablet or a laptop. More or less i dont need much more than what it offers, but controlling functions takes much more time than i ever thought. Anyways, thank you so much for your help, midi communications seem to me like a language for ...drunk people, i never thought it would be so complicated!

Merry xmas!!!!

 

[Manfred1]

Please forgive my ignorance, but is there any way to use the DGX-670 as a midi controller without going through a computer? (i.e. as if it had a standard MIDI out port). I love the DGX features, but I would also like to be able to use it to drive my Roland Integra 7 without messing with a computer. Is there a MIDI interface that would be required to do this, if it is possible at all?

 

[anotherscott]

Yes, there are boxes that will take the USB out of a keyboard and give you standard 5-pin DIN MIDI jacks, e.g. from MIDIPlus or Kenton.

 

[Manfred1]

Yes, there are boxes that will take the USB out of a keyboard and give you standard 5-pin DIN MIDI jacks, e.g. from MIDIPlus or Kenton.

Great...thanks so much!