How can one improve the live sound of a dig.piano?

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Not really on topic, but distantly related, and I want to share :D

When I still studied at the conservatory I had access to acoustic pianos(they had tons of them there in practice rooms). One fond memory was playing around with sympathetic resonance. I for example, use the middle pedal to only sustain two C notes, then I really hammer down on all the notes which share big overtones, like G and other C notes, E's and so forth, but when I release those notes only the origional two are still undampened and they resonated this eerie sound. Was awesome. Can't do that on my Yamaha S90 though :(

</back on topic>

Static samples, static samples :D
 
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Letsel, I also liked doing those sorts of things. Or what I'd do is hold down a G (silently) and play the C an octave and a half below (and other such notes in the harmonic series) and then release the C and the G would ring (not on keyboards :( yes I know, static samples lol).

Anyway, Sysryn, back to this pianoteq thing, I'm wondering... do you own it, or did you just try the trial version? Also I was on the pianoteq forum http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=277 and they mention an external sound card for improved quality, I'm wondering if you use an external sound care, and if your computer is a PC or a laptop.

Another consideration is what kind of amplification do you use for your keyboard? Thanks for the information.
 
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Anyway, Sysryn, back to this pianoteq thing, I'm wondering... do you own it, or did you just try the trial version? Also I was on the pianoteq forum http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=277 and they mention an external sound card for improved quality, I'm wondering if you use an external sound care, and if your computer is a PC or a laptop.

Another consideration is what kind of amplification do you use for your keyboard? Thanks for the information.

Nope, just the trial with 8 keys not working :)

I installed it on my PC with an integrated 5.1 sound card. works great. I have just a pair of plain desktop speakers,
but most of the time i play with my headphones on.
 
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I am a newbie here. In answer to this thread, I understand that the Gem Rp X is the most realistic piano module and rivals all others. I have gone to the Gem site and the samples are really really good. I am thinking about ordering one soon. All other keys forums I have visited gave rave reviews. Yes it is not a real piano, but man it is close as you can get. Nice talkin.
Camkey:)

Camkey - I'm in NJ too (near Morristown)... where are you located? :)
 
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Gigman

I am in Warren County. I like Morristown, great restaurants and things to do. Too expensive for me to live there though, lol, all the best, Camkey
 
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Even though we are using static samples, there are a couple of things that will help at least broaden the sound. It has been proven time and time again that, like words that are mispelled, the human brain will usually fill in the missing parts. I'm in no way saying that we will be able to have a perfect piano coming out of our keyboards here but, some very basic effects and proper eq should help in the live playing.

The first approach to using effects to any instrument when trying to duplicate is trying to replicate the sound that is missing. Since we can't have the warm overtones of the next string or strings, we can at least try to add some hints of noise that are pleasing.

Compression - only if it is very light. Remember compression can make loud notes soft and soft notes loud. All you are doing with compression is making the volume of all your notes about the same db. Very light compression will help you from sounding too wild and can actually give you resonance (if only perceived by the human ear) where it sounds pleasing.

Delay - Sound travels differently with actual resonating strings. If you are on one side of the stage, the sound will hit the audience at different times. Even though this is in the range of milliseconds, our ears do hear it. A real piano would be mic'ed but other mics on stage might pick up some of the pianos sound and it would bleed into the speakers at different times. With keyboards, we are usually plugged straight into the mixing board and this kills some of that bleed. A light touch of delay can help. Run say 5ms on the left channel and 150ms on the right with a fast (but not too fast) decay and that could help.

Chorus - again, very lightly. You will want to run with a longer sweep across the chorus spectrum but use that effect lightly and you can get a pleasing sound and maybe even ditch the idea of delay.

I would stay away from reverb for two main reasons. Where ever you play, that place will have it's own natural reverb. Usually, there is a final reverb applied to the overall mix of the band. If you are running one type of reverb and then combining that with another type of reverb from the mix and then fighting with the clubs natural reverb - well, disaster (in this case, I would choose a delay)

I'm in no way implying that this will solve any problems (hell, it may create more problems until you get used to how effects effect each of your sounds in different rooms and situations). I do know that when trying to make an artificial instrument sound more real, sometimes we have to try and make its sonic overtones match too.
Sometimes something as changing the pitch by 1 or 2 cents can make you stand out and, to the listeners, sounds really good. The problem we musicians have is - we are too critical of our own sound! How many times have you seen the bass player sweeping knobs and cursing his equipment while everyone else is screaming at how good he sounds?
 
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Dear Terr-or

Hey I see by your avatar you are a Frank Frazetta fan, my favorite illustrator. Thanks for a really good and informative response to the "piano problem". I'm sure your tips can carry thru to recording as well as live playing. I am going to give it a shot. By the way I see no one is responding to my mention of the Gem RP X. It really is probably the closest you can get to the real thing in a module that is only $599. I am saving for one. I have a triton rack, Alesis QSR, Yamaha mu100 and kurzweil stage piano and all of these have just tolerable piano.
Camkey
 
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Yes

I have seen and been blown away by the Omnisphere. Unfortunately I have not gone the way of the computer yet. My studio is set up for standalone units. I do all my recording on a Korg d1200 and D1600 mkII.
I then take my work to soundforge for mastering. If you would like to hear the result I would be honored if you would listen to "I remember".
http://www.songramp.com/mod/mps/viewtrack.php?trackid=59941
click on play HiFi p.s. wear a good set of phones

Thanks CamKey
 
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Fantastic recording. You certainly know how to eq and mix your stuff. I would say, however, I think the reverb on your voice is fighting with another reverb. It doesn't sound bad at all but I think you could have achieved some more sonic punch if those reverbs were a closer match (and if you didn't use two reverbs - such as one for the voice and one for the overall mix - then maybe I need to listen again).

Do you have this song in .wav or a high resolution .wmd? I would like to plug that into my studio monitors to get a better listen.

You really know how to make everything stand out in the mix and the volume levels are fantastic! I especially loved how you did a slight off beat on your drums (I want to say about two thirds of the way into the song). Good composition skills man!!!
 
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hey thanks

Terror dude:
hey thanks so much for the reply, and I agree with the reverbs. Yes I did use two verbs to get an 80s feel but there is a little annoyance about it, if you have a good ear. I still have the tracks to mess with. I am new to this site also. It would be nice to have a place for all to post and listen to member tunes. Would love to hear your stuff. CAMkeys
p.s. sorry, I only have this at the moment in MP3, when i get a chance I can convert to wave.
 
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As soon as we re work our songs on our boards, I will be re recording and get some stuff out. I'm in a horrible environment for mixing right now though as we just moved from Japan and we are living with the in-laws until we find a place of our own.

I agree, we should have a section to post but that takes a ton of bandwidth. Perhaps we can have a page with links at the very least or maybe post our songs for a month and then take them off with a link.

I can post on my theories about reverbs on another post. Please understand that I am not even close to professional mixing and some of my opinions may not be the same as others. I only relay what I have learned over time. Also, sometimes the truly bizarre sounds comes from using effects in a non traditional way :)
 
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Even though we are using static samples, there are a couple of things that will help at least broaden the sound....


WELL THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!! AT LAST!!!! AFTER T R E E PAGES SOMEONE ACTUALLY GAVE ME SOME REAL TIPS (besides mentioning some other piano models and sofware) This is what I was looking for.
Ill be trying some of this stuff, it sounds very logic, in some way we try to emulate the natural acoustic phenomenon of a piano with our artificial efects devices right? I knew there was something we could do, I only needed the right criteria.
Ok thank you and everyone who entered this discussion! ;)
 
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WELL THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!! AT LAST!!!! AFTER T R E E PAGES SOMEONE ACTUALLY GAVE ME SOME REAL TIPS (besides mentioning some other piano models and sofware) This is what I was looking for.
Ill be trying some of this stuff, it sounds very logic, in some way we try to emulate the natural acoustic phenomenon of a piano with our artificial efects devices right? I knew there was something we could do, I only needed the right criteria.

Disclaimer: Time and patience and an absolute critical ear is essential. Remember, musicians are NEVER completely happy with their sound. You just have to keep plugging away and you will never completely get the sound of that piano. However, the illusion you create and how the audience reacts to it is what counts in the end.

I'm glad I could be of help. I was really chewing my fingernails down to the second knuckle on that post as we musicians are also very opinionated on what we feel works. What works for some doesn't work for everyone but, we learn from others experiences (which is why I chose to make that post even with strong reservations). Let us know what you come up with as we will learn from experiences :D!!
 

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