How can one improve the live sound of a dig.piano?

Hello.
I never finish understanding the specific diferences between a digital piano and the "real" acoustic piano, (that doesnt mean i cant tell the diference,Im not dumm,I play both often)I mean I dont know EXCTLY wich are the phisical or acoustic features that the dig.pianos lack. I know harmonics come in play on this, so dig.pianos cant emulate harmonics? they emulate just part of them? are harmonics the only difference?

Besides all this, the fact is I own a dpiano for live gigs, and I have no idea of the devices that exist im such a begginner on all this things, only know equalizers and midi modules. I wonder if there is something I can use for improving my piano live sound, I feel it has a fast decay, I would like it to sound fat and to last a little bit more (I tryed reverb, but is just isnt that), you know, closer to a real piano, when you do a chord and can stay there for a while listening the sound expand.

AAAAAAANYWAY
I heard there is a "harmonic enhacer" Would that work fine with a dig,piano? Isnt that for acoustics instruments only? What do you recomend me? Oh, laptops solutions are not my thing, I cant afford one.

GIVE SOME IDEAS ILL BE THANKFUL!

 

what kind and model of dig. piano are you working with??.....need more info

 

My piano is a Kurzweil sp 88x, my question is about any digital piano, but if you happen to know this particular you may be able to advice me better I guess.
Also, I dont use any rack or extra device, just plug in and play my heart! lol

 

Well how about that....I have an sp88..(without the x...semi weighted keys)....I use this board also to play live like you do..

When you play live, there are alot of things that can make your keyboard sound funny....also if your listening to stage monitors then the sound coming thru the monitors is probably totaly different than what the house speakers sound like....the piano samples your dealing with are good....you mentioned when you play a chord, it dosent hold or sustain like a real piano.....that sounds like a pedal problem rather than a bad piano sound....make sure its in the right input jack....it does not go in the jack that says control.....it goes in the hold jack

the only other thing you could do is apply some equalization on the piano channel...but i always thought the kurzweil piano sounds didnt really need any EQ

 

I agree with keyplayer ...sounds like a faulty or poorly made sustain pedal. I've had this happen to my keyboards, if the sustain pedal is not working properly it not only cuts the piano sustain off prematurely, but really can make the piano sound bad.

 

No, my pedal is working fine, it sustains the notes correctly and its plugged in the right hole. You guys are missunderstanding me. When I say it has a fast decay I mean COMPARED TO AN ACOUSTIC PIANO.
Cmon, have you never stood hearing a chord you play sustain and expand for loooong on an acoustic piano?
Keyplayer you have the same patches I do, didnt you realized the piano isnt as warm and fat and sustained as an acoustic?
Maybe I should get some audible examples this. Ill record a chord on my piano and post it, then ill try to get the same thing from an acoustic

 

So NO ONE has any ideas? Im begining to think all of you "keyboard" users have NEVER played or listening a real PIANO!

 

Ummm - insulting the folks you're asking for help is probably not the best approach, dude...

Here are some ideas:

Idea #1 - Amplification
You didn't tell us what you're using for an amplifier to play your SP88X thru - the specific amp you use makes a HUGE difference in the sound.

Idea #2 - Kurzweil SP88X is Old
Your SP88X is how many years old...? It just may not have the technology built-in to have the kind of sustain/decay you're looking for. Try out the latest generation of digital pianos and see: Yamaha S90ES, Roland RD700SX or RD700GX... you'll probably notice a big difference in sound quality (between the current generation machines and your Kurz. SP88X), aside from the decay issue.

Idea #3 - Digital Pianos Are NOT Real Pianos
The digital pianos have come a long way - they provide a portable, lightweight instrument that indeed sounds very much like a piano. But of course, it is NOT a piano... so you can't hold digital keyboards to the exact same standard - the waveforms and that an acoustic piano produces are so complex they will never be EXACTLY recreated in a digital instrument. At least, not in our lifetimes.

 

Well thank you very much for your kind and usefull answer, Im sorry if someone took my last post as insulting, I would never meant to do that!
I guess I was kind of dissapointed for no one have actually gave any practical suggestion, not one! In all this time.
The thing about amplifiyng seems to be essencial, Ill definitely try with others equipments to see different results. Someone told me as well, that some light compression would help with the sound decay/sustain, well I was hoping more of those "tips".. so THANKS!

 

Well thank you, you have given me a bit of "light" in one of the aspects that make the difference between dig. and ac. pianos. I completly agree on the idea of "static" samples.
Some presets of the sp88x actually have good acceptable velocity control though. But it is exactly then, when you are playing the "pp"´s and the "ppp"´s when the lack of sound fullyness and warmness (compared to an acoustic) gets in.
I my experience I actually dont have much problems with the "band sound", just by taking care of the frecuency issue, mainly just picking the right octave (I almost never play on the same octave as the guitar) and a little bit of eq. This with the PIANO sounds right? Organs, strings and others may require some other observations.
My "problem" is when playing solo (absolutely alone that is he he) or lets say a duo or trio (bass, drums or violin or flute for eg.) so the piano doesnt have any other "backround" (like a lead guitar) and must sometimes fill many spaces and really be the "little orchestra" that a piano is.
I put the " because it is not really a problem. In fact I am satisfied with this digpiano sound, I´d just liked if it could sound better, so I ask for your ideas.
By the way what did you mean with "strange sound" coming out of your speakers? I never mentioned i had one...?

 

Old topic, but here I go... the parts about 2 notes affecting each other and the decay being short are frustrating things. I don't know about your keyboard, but I recently bough a Roland RD-300sx (I imagine the 700sx has the same features I'm about to describe). It has 78 multi-effects, the 78th one being that the notes affect each other. You can play a C with the sustain pedal down and it will sound different than if you just play and hold it without the sustain pedal. Also I've started to notice that when I play just one note I can hear the harmonics of higher notes... weirded me out at first, it's pretty cool though. I've also heard Kawaii's keyboards do this.

As for the decay I noticed this too. I play jazz so on the faster tempos it wasn't as big a deal, but on ballads it killed me. I later discovered that on a lot of my sounds they're customizable, you can increase or decrease attack time, cutoff, decay time, release time, etc. I don't know if yours can do this, maybe look in the manual closely? Likely not if it's an old model, in which case you're out of luck.

As a brief aside... earlier the acoustic sound was described as being influenced by other notes being held down (C and G was the example used). Another thing to consider is the harmonic series. It goes an octave, a fifth, a fourth, a third, a second, etc. This means that when you play a C if you cut off the string half way, a C an octave higher will sound, if you go half again, a G, half again, another C, then E, etc. So when you play a C all these notes are ringing (you can hear it clearer with the sustain pedal down), which in the older keyboards I don't think this was taken into account. This is why an older keyboard's piano sound will sound thing (apart from being a digital signal), is you don't have all these harmonies being played, only the note.

 

Ok youre right, but THATs what I was talking (asking) about in the first place, effects.
I didnt knew about that on rolands, it must sound pretty cool! Didnt know about pianoteq either! ill try it.
Anyway, will there be a way to emulate this kind of effects with a external device?

 

Hey just wondering about PIanoteq.... if I download it to my PC can I hook it up to my computer (it has a USB connection) and play my keyboard using this software? I'm assuming I can, but never can be sure. I have a Roland RD-300sx.

Also... since I'm using a laptop would it be better to use an external soundcard (firewire)? What do you use?

 

Hi Everyone

I am a newbie here. In answer to this thread, I understand that the Gem Rp X is the most realistic piano module and rivals all others. I have gone to the Gem site and the samples are really really good. I am thinking about ordering one soon. All other keys forums I have visited gave rave reviews. Yes it is not a real piano, but man it is close as you can get. Nice talkin.
Camkey

 

Not really on topic, but distantly related, and I want to share

When I still studied at the conservatory I had access to acoustic pianos(they had tons of them there in practice rooms). One fond memory was playing around with sympathetic resonance. I for example, use the middle pedal to only sustain two C notes, then I really hammer down on all the notes which share big overtones, like G and other C notes, E's and so forth, but when I release those notes only the origional two are still undampened and they resonated this eerie sound. Was awesome. Can't do that on my Yamaha S90 though

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