Roland vs Yamaha question

[happyrat1]

For the cover I'd recommend the nylon. Cotton tends to breathe more and hence absorb some dust.

Gary

 

[happyrat1]

And on the stand the screws go into the holes for a positive lock.

Gary

 

[anotherscott]

If size matters or rather a lack of size then you are looking at the wrong keyboard.

A Korg Kross 2 61 keys is less than 9 lbs in weight and way less smaller in overall dimensions than a Roland Juno DS 61.

Its the main reason that I bought mine, plus it runs on batteries as does the lightweight amp and hence both are easily transported.

Yes, if size/weight is paramount, that's a big plus for the Kross. And there are definitely situations (like gigging via mass transit) where every pound counts. But for others, the difference between <9 lbs for the Kross vs. <12 lbs for the DS61 is not enough to really sway the decision, it may not be as important as other differences, some of which favor the Roland.

I think the difference is actually more significant when looking at 88s. Then the Kross is what I would find to be a much more manageable 27-ish pounds compared to the tubby near 36 lbs of the Roland. (Though personally, I'd probably take the 27-ish pound Kurzweil SP6 over either one.)

 

[anotherscott]

Do many bring these around to gigs? Juno and stand, bit work/ heavy. No current plans to travel around with but who knows.. Maybe some just buy a lighter one for gigs. I'm more guitarist, so that that a lot of weight to bring around too. but,.... if if you have a few great songs written with the Juno... could be worth it to bring.. Maybe require a wheeled cart

If transport was any concern at all, maybe that's another reason it was good that you passed on the Yamaha DGX!

Yes, you could consider a lighter keyboard if you start using it for gigs. Another nice advantage of the Roland, then, is that you could transfer your work into the more portable DS61 or DS76 when needed. There's no comparable file-compatible "lightweight version" of the DGX.

 

[kevs]

Thanks Gary again, Yeah Biggles, the Juno 88 can go outside, it's just heavy and huge. I got it for just a tad more $ than the 66 , and got a full normal weighted keyboard, So home based unit for now... Can always get smaller one for $200 - $300, if I needed to do local gigs.. Have no idea if that will happen...Can't have everything in one unit.

 

[kevs]

Some dust covers from Amazon, I emailed those 2 boutique companies, harder to deal with obviously:

Amazon.com: On-Stage Keyboard Dust Cover for 88 Key Keyboards, Black: Musical Instruments

Buy On-Stage Keyboard Dust Cover for 88 Key Keyboards, Black: Bags, Cases & Covers - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

Amazon.com: Yamaha Dust Cover for 88-Key Keyboards and Digital Pianos: Musical Instruments

Buy Yamaha Dust Cover for 88-Key Keyboards and Digital Pianos: Musical Instruments - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

Amazon.com: QMG Stretchable Keyboard Dust Cover for 88 Key-keyboard: Best for all Digital Pianos & Consoles – Adjustable Elastic Cord; Machine Washable – 49”×17”×6”.: Musical Instruments

Buy QMG Stretchable Keyboard Dust Cover for 88 Key-keyboard: Best for all Digital Pianos & Consoles – Adjustable Elastic Cord; Machine Washable – 49”×17”×6”.: Bags, Cases & Covers - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

One has 4.8 review, but aethetically, I kind of like the Yamaha as it clear.. which is cool..looking. Is it good?

 

[happyrat1]

The stretchy ones are useless. They are dust sponges.

The Yamaha one looks decent but do you really want a Yamaha Logo on your gear?

The other two guys I listed make quality products, with or without custom embroidery as per your order.

I've dealt with Larry at LeCover many times.

Just call him on his Illinois number during a weekday after 10 AM CT and he'll fix you right up.

He's very hands on and does a great job of making and shipping quality custom dust covers.

He's a small businessman who goes the extra mile for his clients.

Gary

 

[kevs]

Gary, interesting, so Yamaha one is better as it's plastic? Others I think are what..? Vinyl or Nylon? But those other 2 guys use Vinyl and Nylon too no?.

Funny I was originally going to buy the Yamaha P-125 but then realized as good as that piano sounds was, why not have a great piano and a great synth in one unit? That said, I think Yamaha is a great brand, no? Their normal pianos, grand and otherwise are super prestigious, no?

(I had a $100 Yamaha guitar as kid and it was horrible, but for real Pianos they are top flight, maybe I'm wrong? ) If you concur then I would not care that it says Yamaha and not Roland.. But I am a brand snob (Martin, Fender Mercedes etc) , so interestng you bring it up. But if it's as respected as Roland, I'm ok with it.

 

[kevs]

And on the stand the screws go into the holes for a positive lock.

Gary

thanks Gary, I'm not feeling that. I'm just locking where I want and it seems to lock tight. Do you get some click or feel when a hole arrives near the knob? Seems to close anyway.. odd? Final bit : onstage: two washers, but instruction don't mention where which of 4 knobs to put the washers. Also stupid question, but stand does not extend horizontally correct? That is fixed.

The right arm jiggles a bit, where the left arm does not. (when no piano on it) I see a philipps screw, but I can't tighten it as i don't have the tool to hold the not on the other end, one of those odd nuts (if I'm using the correct terminology)

Also where do you place your keyboards? I put my about 2 inches in. You could do right in center or even at back of one wanted...

 

[kevs]

If transport was any concern at all, maybe that's another reason it was good that you passed on the Yamaha DGX!

Yes, you could consider a lighter keyboard if you start using it for gigs. Another nice advantage of the Roland, then, is that you could transfer your work into the more portable DS61 or DS76 when needed. There's no comparable file-compatible "lightweight version" of the DGX.

GOOD point Scott: Darn, good point.. I was actually thinking those cheap, (and I think not bad..? Yamahas at $179 new); but the smaller Junos would make sense as then I'll know the layout and all the Roland sounds by then.. darn, the 61 and 76 are almost the price of the 88 (which I got on sale for $800!) But that does makes right, as then you don't have to learn a new keyboards layout and sounds...

 

[happyrat1]

Gary, interesting, so Yamaha one is better as it's plastic? Others I think are what..? Vinyl or Nylon? But those other 2 guys use Vinyl and Nylon too no?.

Funny I was originally going to buy the Yamaha P-125 but then realized as good as that piano sounds was, why not have a great piano and a great synth in one unit? That said, I think Yamaha is a great brand, no? Their normal pianos, grand and otherwise are super prestigious, no?

(I had a $100 Yamaha guitar as kid and it was horrible, but for real Pianos they are top flight, maybe I'm wrong? ) If you concur then I would not care that it says Yamaha and not Roland.. But I am a brand snob (Martin, Fender Mercedes etc) , so interestng you bring it up. But if it's as respected as Roland, I'm ok with it.

The stretchy ones are spandex. not nylon.

Gary

 

[Biggles]

Gary, interesting, so Yamaha one is better as it's plastic? Others I think are what..? Vinyl or Nylon? But those other 2 guys use Vinyl and Nylon too no?.

Funny I was originally going to buy the Yamaha P-125 but then realized as good as that piano sounds was, why not have a great piano and a great synth in one unit? That said,
.
.
I think Yamaha is a great brand, no?
.
.
Their normal pianos, grand and otherwise are super prestigious, no?

(I had a $100 Yamaha guitar as kid and it was horrible, but for real Pianos they are top flight, maybe I'm wrong? ) If you concur then I would not care that it says Yamaha and not Roland.. But I am a brand snob (Martin, Fender Mercedes etc) , so interestng you bring it up. But if it's as respected as Roland, I'm ok with it.

I have the opposite view on Yamaha.

The piano sounds are good but stand back and look at the materials used in making any Yamaha keyboard then do the same with any Roland, Korg, Nord etc and it should be easily seen that Yamaha props up the others with cheap and nasty looking plastic with small buttons and fiddly menu systems.

Yamaha are in the market to sell as many keyboards as they can and they flood the low end of the market with their kit so newbies, schools etc buy their kit and those that use them get locked into the brand.

I have just been in my Music Store where a guy was playing a Yamaha Genos arranger that costs £3500 here in the UK, looking at the quality of materials used in the Genos then it looks like a Yamaha E463 which costs £260, by comparison its competitor the Korg PA4X looks quality, sounds great and is a £1000 less. So why would this guy be sat there playing a Genos when he could have £1000 more in his Bank by buying the Korg instead?

 

[kevs]

Interesting Biggles. I guess that is why partly I was dazzled by the Juno, whereas previously I was only looking at Yamahas. You are correct for example the DXG does look so hokey. So you would reverse that covering to not show Yamaha!

BTW, I never did AB testing on sounds with headphones, the Juno just sounded great through speakers that guitar center had so I assumed- Roland had better sounds, but Yamahas in $200 to $800 which I was looking at, do/ can the sounds approach quality of the Roland Juno?

 

[GeraldR]

Wow ... this discussion wandered into a number of alleys! But first, hardly anyone plays an electronic keyboard for it's accurate simulation of a piano: I'd say the Yamaha DGX keys are closer to some expensive console organs I've played than any piano but that's good if you want to play those bumps, smashes and slides that are common to Hammond playing; in any case, the physical characteristics of a piano differ between a spinet and an upright grand and a lot with a concert grand also it is basically improbable that a fixed mechanism could simulate pedal action that changes the position of hammers and dampers relative to the strings. One design constraint is that it is difficult to replace mass and momentum with anything else; if you've ever lifted out the action sub-assembly, you'll know it is heavy (I once converted an old upright into a portable electric but had to cut it down to 66 keys in order to keep weight down). But even electronic keys with a decent action can be heavy: my DGX certainly pushes the definition of portable to the extent that I keep another keyboard for holiday outings.

One topic that strangely didn't get much discussion is sound: to my ear Yamaha synthesis is always crisp but a bit arid while Roland is round and sometimes a bit mushy (best I can describe it); I like both but they're definitely different; my impression is that Roland does 'warm' better.

When I worked on image simulation, I soon discovered that it's the grunge that makes an image seem real; to some extent, the same applies to electronic keyboards: they're typically missing cross-talk, twang of hard strikes, slight dissonance of a well tuned (as by a good by-ear tuner) instrument, etc. Yesterday, I watched a Stones concert: during an excellent sax solo the artist blocked the reed, squawked it and pulled overtones a few times (I know it's no accident) which added color to the performance; my keyboards offer none of that on reeds but then they also don't capture touch sensitive percussion similar to that on an organ with block-triggered percussion. With the huge number of stock voices/patches on a keyboard, not every one may be satisfying (there are a few Yamaha voices I find unappealing) so taking a test drive at the music store probably won't fully explore your sound preferences. Having said that, a friend also has a DGX which they only use at home using the built in speakers; where it's situated it sounds phenomenal compared to my newer model!

 

[GeraldR]

I have the opposite view on Yamaha.

Yamaha are in the market to sell as many keyboards as they can and they flood the low end of the market with their kit so newbies, schools etc buy their kit and those that use them get locked into the brand.

That's my perception too; I like Yamaha and have keys of all ages including one that's 50 years old, one that's 40. I was attracted to the E series as a possible top keyboard because of some of the features but 3 minutes on the keys killed that idea: my impression - feels as bad as my Novation MIDI controller. Moral of the story: only buy the better Yamaha stuff if you like Yamaha (and want to maintain a happy relationship).

 

[Kaneda]

I agree on the Yamaha stuff : I bought a MX61 a couple of weeks ago, and returned it. Nice sounds but felt really really cheap...

 

[Gearhead]

Hello! I didn't read all the excellent posts, so this may have been covered...but...my perspective.

About a year and a half ago I upgraded from a Yam YPG 625 (predecessor to the DGX 660) to a DS88. I'm a classical pianist at heart, so weighted hammer action was important to me and only the 88 key versions generally have it. Weight is in the name, so a 61 key is MUUUCH lighter due partially to size, but mainly because it has no hammer action. You might be happy without a hammer action, that's up to you.

Now for that action. Yam has used essentially the same GHS action on all their lower end hammer action boards for a long time, and I don't think that aspect has changed from my old 625 to present. I always thought it felt good, but over time it got "loose" and "clacky". The same basic feel was still there, but there was this click / clatter along with it from wear that felt and sounded cheap. Now as long as the volume was up loud enough it wasn't a big deal, but it bothered me. When I bought the DS88 I wanted a few things, but chief among them were transportability and a more solid feeling action. I tried the Yammy MX88 and MOFX8 in the store, both with GHS. Weirdly, the MOFX8 felt just like my old 625, while the MX88 felt more solid. Dunno why, maybe one was an older display unit? But in short, I didn't want a GHS keybed. Again, they feel good, but my perception is they get that clacky feel / noise. In fact, my first choice going in was a Casio PX560, which has a LOT going for it, but also is known for good-feeling but noisy keys. Dang.

I think the DS88 feels solid in the keys, and piano-like. Everybody has a different "ideal" for that feel, and different acoustic pianos feel different anyway, but that's my opinion. The overall unit weight is on the lighter end for an 88 hammer action, and the dimensions are reasonably compact, for decent transportability, it has lots of good sounds and cool controls for live performance, expansion sounds available, etc, so I got it and I'm happy with it.

Sounds are subjective. I think the Juno sounds great. There is an aspect of the piano sounds that is maybe slightly less-than when I get real particular, but overall it creates a lovely performance sound. I think the Yammy piano sounds may have been a bit, well, smoother, but perhaps with less dynamics. That DGX should have over 500 other sounds, enough to keep you busy, and the Juno over 1000, and I think some very cool ones.

Briefly on the accessories. The DGX comes with a built in stand, speakers, music rest, complete package. But it's very heavy. Do you want to take it anywhere? The Juno is a stage synth and made for that. But as discussed, you need a stand and speakers / amp. I spent about $50 on a Z stand; a double X stand is similar price and OK and easier for quick setup, but a Z stand is way more stable, like a rock! I got an off-brand, Musician's Gear from Musician's Friend maybe? Very solid. I spent about $120 on some powered speakers on Amazon that sound pretty doggone good. And the simplest solution for a music stand is to just buy a floor standing band-style stand and place it right behind the keyboard. You can get the off-brand but solidly constructed music stands for $20 or so.

There's my 2 cents. Or maybe 3
Jeremy

 

[kevs]

Wow ... this discussion wandered into a number of alleys! But first, hardly anyone plays an electronic keyboard for it's accurate simulation of a piano: I'd say the Yamaha DGX keys are closer to some expensive console organs I've played than any piano but that's good if you want to play those bumps, smashes and slides that are common to Hammond playing; in any case, the physical characteristics of a piano differ between a spinet and an upright grand and a lot with a concert grand also it is basically improbable that a fixed mechanism could simulate pedal action that changes the position of hammers and dampers relative to the strings. One design constraint is that it is difficult to replace mass and momentum with anything else; if you've ever lifted out the action sub-assembly, you'll know it is heavy (I once converted an old upright into a portable electric but had to cut it down to 66 keys in order to keep weight down). But even electronic keys with a decent action can be heavy: my DGX certainly pushes the definition of portable to the extent that I keep another keyboard for holiday outings.

One topic that strangely didn't get much discussion is sound: to my ear Yamaha synthesis is always crisp but a bit arid while Roland is round and sometimes a bit mushy (best I can describe it); I like both but they're definitely different; my impression is that Roland does 'warm' better.

When I worked on image simulation, I soon discovered that it's the grunge that makes an image seem real; to some extent, the same applies to electronic keyboards: they're typically missing cross-talk, twang of hard strikes, slight dissonance of a well tuned (as by a good by-ear tuner) instrument, etc. Yesterday, I watched a Stones concert: during an excellent sax solo the artist blocked the reed, squawked it and pulled overtones a few times (I know it's no accident) which added color to the performance; my keyboards offer none of that on reeds but then they also don't capture touch sensitive percussion similar to that on an organ with block-triggered percussion. With the huge number of stock voices/patches on a keyboard, not every one may be satisfying (there are a few Yamaha voices I find unappealing) so taking a test drive at the music store probably won't fully explore your sound preferences. Having said that, a friend also has a DGX which they only use at home using the built in speakers; where it's situated it sounds phenomenal compared to my newer model!

Thanks Gerald, I think I only understood 50% of that, but 'hardly anyone plays an electronic keyboard for it's accurate simulation of a piano".. Well I have not played a real piano for 20 years, ,so getting back into it, the Roland, and Yamahas for simulating a real piano, are pretty close for me.. so ignorance is bliss, but yeah, for then, getting a real piano sound/ feel was part of reason I got the Juno 88 and not the Juno 61 or 76 as they did not have weighted keys. So I have best of both worlds: weigted almost real feel sound of an acoustic piano, (which is good enough for me) .. and don't have to have a real 2 ton piano in the house, and an A level Syth. (only issue as I've posted is the 88 is very heavy for moving to the car.
Again, I did not do A/B test, and as you point out, in the store, its not accurate anyway, but the Roland just seemed to have better sounds. More professional.

 

[kevs]

Hello! I didn't read all the excellent posts, so this may have been covered...but...my perspective.

About a year and a half ago I upgraded from a Yam YPG 625 (predecessor to the DGX 660) to a DS88. I'm a classical pianist at heart, so weighted hammer action was important to me and only the 88 key versions generally have it. Weight is in the name, so a 61 key is MUUUCH lighter due partially to size, but mainly because it has no hammer action. You might be happy without a hammer action, that's up to you.

Now for that action. Yam has used essentially the same GHS action on all their lower end hammer action boards for a long time, and I don't think that aspect has changed from my old 625 to present. I always thought it felt good, but over time it got "loose" and "clacky". The same basic feel was still there, but there was this click / clatter along with it from wear that felt and sounded cheap. Now as long as the volume was up loud enough it wasn't a big deal, but it bothered me. When I bought the DS88 I wanted a few things, but chief among them were transportability and a more solid feeling action. I tried the Yammy MX88 and MOFX8 in the store, both with GHS. Weirdly, the MOFX8 felt just like my old 625, while the MX88 felt more solid. Dunno why, maybe one was an older display unit? But in short, I didn't want a GHS keybed. Again, they feel good, but my perception is they get that clacky feel / noise. In fact, my first choice going in was a Casio PX560, which has a LOT going for it, but also is known for good-feeling but noisy keys. Dang.

I think the DS88 feels solid in the keys, and piano-like. Everybody has a different "ideal" for that feel, and different acoustic pianos feel different anyway, but that's my opinion. The overall unit weight is on the lighter end for an 88 hammer action, and the dimensions are reasonably compact, for decent transportability, it has lots of good sounds and cool controls for live performance, expansion sounds available, etc, so I got it and I'm happy with it.

Sounds are subjective. I think the Juno sounds great. There is an aspect of the piano sounds that is maybe slightly less-than when I get real particular, but overall it creates a lovely performance sound. I think the Yammy piano sounds may have been a bit, well, smoother, but perhaps with less dynamics. That DGX should have over 500 other sounds, enough to keep you busy, and the Juno over 1000, and I think some very cool ones.

Briefly on the accessories. The DGX comes with a built in stand, speakers, music rest, complete package. But it's very heavy. Do you want to take it anywhere? The Juno is a stage synth and made for that. But as discussed, you need a stand and speakers / amp. I spent about $50 on a Z stand; a double X stand is similar price and OK and easier for quick setup, but a Z stand is way more stable, like a rock! I got an off-brand, Musician's Gear from Musician's Friend maybe? Very solid. I spent about $120 on some powered speakers on Amazon that sound pretty doggone good. And the simplest solution for a music stand is to just buy a floor standing band-style stand and place it right behind the keyboard. You can get the off-brand but solidly constructed music stands for $20 or so.

There's my 2 cents. Or maybe 3
Jeremy

Thanks Jeremy, yeah, my Juno 88 arrived 2 days, and I glad this one sales guy at Guitar Center pointed it out as I was very set on getting a Yamaha... Interestsly what I loved about the Juno, among other things, was the phrase pads with their great drum sounds. I'm not a drummer but I love that feature. And did notice the whole thing did have a better built, and the sounds seemed great. Yeah, I just got the OnStage stand recommended in this thread by Gary and it's great. And Sono speakers are still coming, just $100... so the fact that Yamaha comes with those things are meaningless really..maybe even a detriment.

 

[Calldon]

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