Set list changes

[Briggy]

Hi all

So I am now starting to gig in multiple bands. I have a 2 keyboard set up with multiple patches. I am able to change the order of patches using programmes that come for the keyboards (Juno DS & VR09) which in itself can be a bit of a pain.

One apprehension has come after a recent successful audition I had. In passing the band mentioned they sometimes change the set as they go - this makes me very nervous. How do you all overcome this? A lot of the songs I play need the programmed patches, so when the singer shouts, "X song", I'm expected to call up the patch and be ready to go in a matter of seconds??

I appreciate communication with the band about this is important, however I don't want to risk looking unprofessional so would love to get your thoughts/ideas/solutions here.

 

[anotherscott]

A smartphone or tablet can be used to call up your patches on the Juno DS... you could have an alphabetical song list, for example, and have it send the MIDI Program Change when you select a song. VR-09 is trickier. I think one of its biggest flaws is that you can't call up its registrations over MIDI, which means you pretty much have to use its wheel to find whatever patch you want if it's not part of a prearranged set.

 

[Briggy]

That’s really interesting to know. I have to say, although I like the VR09 for certain things, I’m starting to get a little frustrated with its usability. It’s great for quick access to core sounds but not very easy to use for any more than that. A little gutted.

Do you have any more information of the Juno DS and smart phone triggering? Will do some googling otherwise.


Thank you!!

 

[Tahitijack]

Confirming my intention of being a solo player of keys.

For 25 years I went through exactly what you are describing as guitar player in cover bands. Although we had set lists, from time to time our singer would decide during one song to create a medley. Oddly he got inspired by a video of Elvis Presley singing his hit Little Sister and the Beatles hit Get Back.

In an acoustic project we rehearsed our set a few days before a gig but at the gig the leader handed out different set list including some song we hadn't played and a few songs to be sung by "an invited guest"

I understand there will be requests from the audience often with money dropping into a tip jar...there is always room to add that at the end of a set or beginning of the next set.

Good luck..as someone I used to know once said....I feel your pain.

 

[Briggy]

Confirming my intention of being a solo player of keys.

For 25 years I went through exactly what you are describing as guitar player in cover bands. Although we had set lists, from time to time our singer would decide during one song to create a medley. Oddly he got inspired by a video of Elvis Presley singing his hit Little Sister and the Beatles hit Get Back.

In an acoustic project we rehearsed our set a few days before a gig but at the gig the leader handed out different set list including some song we hadn't played and a few songs to be sung by "an invited guest"

I understand there will be requests from the audience often with money dropping into a tip jar...there is always room to add that at the end of a set or beginning of the next set.

Good luck..as someone I used to know once said....I feel your pain.

It’s always nice to hear it’s not just me. Funnily enough it can be a lonely world playing keys and not many band members appreciate some of these challenges.

 

[Pete The Greek]

I used to own a Juno DS. I had to program it for a pit orchestra show with a bunch of "sequential" presets, which I stepped through (literally! using a footswitch). That's great if the order of the songs/patches never changes.

But it sounds like you need the ability to quickly and randomly access particular patches. For that you could use an external midi controller with buttons (or foot switches). You will need something that can send bank select messages (MIDI CC 0 = MSB, followed by MIDI CC 32 = LSB), followed by the program change (PC).

The first thing to understand is what message to send; then you can figure out what hardware can do that for you.

RE "what message to send":

Please see: https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/JUNO-DS_MIDI_Imple_eng02_W.pdf - and specifically the table right after the sentence "The Performances, Patterns, Patches, and Drum Kits corresponding to each Bank Select are as follows." at the bottom of page 1.

For example, to switch to User Performance #1, you would send:
CC 0 = 85 (bank select MSB)
CC 32 = 0 (bank select LSB)
PC = 0 (you have to subtract 1 from the desired patch number; i.e. send a number between 0 and 127 for patches 1-128)

To switch to User Patch #1, you would send:
CC 0 = 87
CC 32 = 0
PC = 0

To switch to User Patch #129, you would send:
CC 0 = 87
CC 32 = 1
PC = 0

To switch to Preset Patch #1, you would send:
CC 0 = 87
CC 32 = 64
PC = 0

To switch to Preset Patch #129, you would send:

CC 0 = 87
CC 32 = 65
PC = 0

(and so on...just increase the value of CC 32 by 1 to access any of the next 128 preset patches)

Re hardware:
Two possible controller solutions (I have used both):
1. Android tablet (or phone) with Midi Commander app - via USB midi. The cheapest solution if you already have the Android device. Maybe there are similar iOS tools - I do not know.
2. Behringer FCB1010 foot controller - via old-fashioned 5-pin MIDI cable. These are all over the place; you should be able to find a used one for about $100. They are a bear to program "natively", but 3rd party software exists.

In Midi Commander, this is very easy to set up once you get the hang of it.

With the Behringer, I'd recommend 3rd party software for editing - such as https://mountainutilities.eu/fcb1010
Their manual explains clearly how to program a preset to send a bank select message followed by a program change message.

Use "CNT 1" to send the MSB (e.g. CC 0 = 85)
Use "CNT 2" to send the LSB (e.g. CC 32 = 0)
Use "PC 5" to send the program change (e.g. PC = 0)

I hope this helps.

 

[keymaninaz]

Songbook Plus App (iOS) or MobileSheets (Android) will enable you to make a songlist. Then selected song can be programmed to send midi messages to select your proper settings on the Keyboard.

 

[Pete The Greek]

Songbook Plus App (iOS) or MobileSheets (Android) will enable you to make a songlist. Then selected song can be programmed to send midi messages to select your proper settings on the Keyboard.

Excellent suggestion. Also there are iOS and Windows versions of Mobile sheets.

 

[anotherscott]

There are other iOS apps that allow you to assemble set lists that can send MIDI program messages to attached devices... Set List Maker and I think OnSong and ForScore are possibilities.

There are also apps of another type... rather than set list apps that can send MIDI, they are MIDI apps which have set list functions, like iMidiPatchbay and Camelot Pro. These are more useful if you're not controlling just the Juno DS but also other keyboards/modules and/or software instruments residing on the iOS device itself.

 

[keymaninaz]

Excellent suggestion. Also there are iOS and Windows versions of Mobile sheets.

Both are excellent apps. I have been using SongbookPlus for a decade.

 

[Oogie Wa Wa]

I'm about to start playing with another band part time. Using a simpler approach. I have all the setlists for both bands on a tablet using LyricPad 2 (old version.) I can change the directory where the song files with chords and lyrics reside, and where the setlists reside easily, a different one for each of the two bands. Takes a minute. No help so far, I know...

But what I do is for each song on the setlist, the first thing on the song page is any keyboard setup special instructions for the song, and they're all in Favorites Banks on my DS61. If we're going in order I just flip to the next song and there's the Favorite(s) number on the tablet, takes five seconds. And I need to do it for lyrics and progression reminders anyway. Punch it in and go. I have trouble memorizing lists, always have.

In addition to that, most of the songs I do utilize one generic setup anyway. A Favorite where I always have bass on the left two octaves, and the other three are generic piano, rotary organ, flute, french horn, choir, sax, string pads, horn pads, etc. all select-able with the touch pads. Fifteen different patches available on the right. I get about 15 or more songs out of just that one Favorite.

Hey, we're a 3-piece band, folks in the area aren't used to anybody having a keyboard anyway, it's just gotta be close!

Calling up a specific song out of order is easy, and we do it frequently; one step back to the menu, select Open, pick the lyric file, and away we go, enter the listed Favorite; maybe another ten seconds. It used to take a painful minute, lol, now it's almost second nature.

HOWEVER, for the ten or fifteen songs that require a special custom Performance with multiple splits and various things to bring in and out, I have a paper list fun-tacked to the keyboard showing which Favorites to use, and which of the touch pads bring in alternate instruments, pads and such. I'll need another list for the new band. And use different Banks of Favorites.

Nothing 'smart' about it, but I'm a MIDIot and it works for me. Simple as you can get. Oh, and for the remainder of the songs I just play bass guitar, my real job. FWIW.

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Examples. You Can't Always Get WYW; it says the Generic Bank 1, Fav 2 at the top of the tablet song chords/lyrics file. Bass always on the left. Use touch pad 6 for the choir intro; switch to Pad 5 for the french horn behind the guitar as shown on the tablet. While the first verse starts when it's all guitar, I select Pad 1, piano. For the next verse it's Pad 3, rotary organ. Then just alternate 1 and 3.

Marshall Tucker Heard it in a Love Song; same generic Fav. Start with Pad 4, flute. Play bass guitar during the verses and choruses. For the solos it's bass/flute, then piano, Pad 1. Back to bass until the end, where it finishes on the flute.

Radar Love: Special setup. Bank 2, Fav 8 on the paper. 3 splits. Bass always on the left. Next two octaves are horns and a synth. Last one is a light organ pad. Also on the paper, Touch Pad 3 brings in a porto synth on top of the horns for one passage, Touch Pad 4 brings in a trumpet on top of them instead during the bridge.