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You get the same full Apple sound library regardless of whether you buy Mainstage or Logic (or both).
Want a 'fun' weighted board...
- Thread starter Kaneda
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Already installed the 90-day Logic Trial, in the process of comparing it to Ableton Live trial (also 90 days)...
When you buy Ableton Live Suite, you get 70gb worth of sounds and effect, around the same as Logic. Live Suite is almost double the price of Logic, though... There's also Live Standard, a lot smaller library, but still a lot more expensive than Logic...
When you buy Ableton Live Suite, you get 70gb worth of sounds and effect, around the same as Logic. Live Suite is almost double the price of Logic, though... There's also Live Standard, a lot smaller library, but still a lot more expensive than Logic...
If you go with Logic you can spend the difference in price for some powerful software synths like Serum, Sylenth or Spire.
Note that in Live several packs are not complete. You only get essentials of the pack.
Whatever you choose, have fun and test these DAWs thoroughly in different music production scenarios.
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It's striking, though, that not only Novation, but also Arturia and Native Instruments 'present' Ableton as the primary DAW to use with their instruments, and 'merely' offering support for the rest.
The Keylab Mk2, for instance, has some extra functions assigned to pads and buttons that only work in Ableton, the SL MK3 is basically made for Ableton and Native Instruments seems to prefer Ableton as well, but offers nigh-on the same integration with Logic (some of the buttons on the S61 don't even do anything unless you have a Maschine add-on).
Either it's a commercial thing, or Ableton really is a lot newer and more innovative. That's what I understand from reviews and comparisons as well : they're both incredibly good, but Logic seems to play catch-up to Ableton (which it does incredibly well, mind you). Another comment I read was that some of the plugins in Logic haven't really been updated in a long while (not optimised for retina screens for one) and that Apple simply leaves them in to keep the high numbers of included plug-ins up.
In any case, I've got some time to compare, and the Arturia is back in the running, more or less. I seem to go back and forth between the Keylab and the S61, not being able to decide which one would suit me best ; the SL MK3 seems to be the one that draws me the most. It would be a steep learning curve, and I'm not interested in controlling hardware synths, so perhaps a big part of the functionality of the SL MK3 would be wasted on me....
The S61 seems attractive because of the included sound library, and the bling-bling displays. But that might wear off very soon.
As far as keybeds are concerned, I've seen enough videos to understand that all three have quality semi-weighted keys, so that's not going to be the deciding factor.
The Keylab Mk2, for instance, has some extra functions assigned to pads and buttons that only work in Ableton, the SL MK3 is basically made for Ableton and Native Instruments seems to prefer Ableton as well, but offers nigh-on the same integration with Logic (some of the buttons on the S61 don't even do anything unless you have a Maschine add-on).
Either it's a commercial thing, or Ableton really is a lot newer and more innovative. That's what I understand from reviews and comparisons as well : they're both incredibly good, but Logic seems to play catch-up to Ableton (which it does incredibly well, mind you). Another comment I read was that some of the plugins in Logic haven't really been updated in a long while (not optimised for retina screens for one) and that Apple simply leaves them in to keep the high numbers of included plug-ins up.
In any case, I've got some time to compare, and the Arturia is back in the running, more or less. I seem to go back and forth between the Keylab and the S61, not being able to decide which one would suit me best ; the SL MK3 seems to be the one that draws me the most. It would be a steep learning curve, and I'm not interested in controlling hardware synths, so perhaps a big part of the functionality of the SL MK3 would be wasted on me....
The S61 seems attractive because of the included sound library, and the bling-bling displays. But that might wear off very soon.
As far as keybeds are concerned, I've seen enough videos to understand that all three have quality semi-weighted keys, so that's not going to be the deciding factor.
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From a commercial standpoint, as you mention, Ableton has one big advantage over Logic... it runs on both Mac and WIndows, instead of Mac only. Also, unlike Apple's software, they can include a free lite version in the box with purchase. So there are also some marketing forces at work.
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Well, I've worked with Apple products for a very long time and they are known for bundling very cool and capable software with their computers : Pages, Keynote, iMovie, Garageband are all extremely good applications, and all for free.
Of course, you pay a premium for a Mac so in a way, those apps aren't really free. But I'm prepared to pay extra for a Mac, because everything just work so well, plus I need it for work.
Consequently, Apple can keep the price of Logic Pro at a very reasonable level, because their profits mostly come from their machines, not their software. A company like Ableton needs to live off their Live software and some other stuff, so it's normal that Live is that much more expensive (and the same goes for Cubase Pro and other DAW software).
Ableton is a 'loop based' DAW, but there's arrangement view as well, so you can use it as a more traditional linear DAW. Logic has now also introduced loop recording, taken a few pointers from Garageband and put it in Logic, so obviously, Ableton must be doing something right.
Of course, you pay a premium for a Mac so in a way, those apps aren't really free. But I'm prepared to pay extra for a Mac, because everything just work so well, plus I need it for work.
Consequently, Apple can keep the price of Logic Pro at a very reasonable level, because their profits mostly come from their machines, not their software. A company like Ableton needs to live off their Live software and some other stuff, so it's normal that Live is that much more expensive (and the same goes for Cubase Pro and other DAW software).
Ableton is a 'loop based' DAW, but there's arrangement view as well, so you can use it as a more traditional linear DAW. Logic has now also introduced loop recording, taken a few pointers from Garageband and put it in Logic, so obviously, Ableton must be doing something right.
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I had a little studio in mind and was going to put my MP11SE alongside my desk (L-shaped setup), and obviously have the MIDI controller and the iMac on the desk.
Turns out that the MP11SE is somewhat too big and cumbersome. In other words, it won't fit. So I guess I'll be selling it anyway.
I could go for a 88-key controller right away, but Iwould still like to have the controller separate from my piano. So, I need a compact replacement for the MP11SE.
A simple 88 key controller like the M-Audio Hammer 88 could fit the bill, but that is even longer than my MP11SE. Casio CDP-S100 or PX-S1000 then and use it as a controller. Could work.
The Korg D1, that should be perfect, it has a superb action that I've played and love, so I guess that would be perfect.
Only, it has no USB MIDI. Apparently, connecting it with a Roland UMK-One MK2 works perfectly.
Anyone tried using the D1 as a controller ?
Turns out that the MP11SE is somewhat too big and cumbersome. In other words, it won't fit. So I guess I'll be selling it anyway.
I could go for a 88-key controller right away, but Iwould still like to have the controller separate from my piano. So, I need a compact replacement for the MP11SE.
A simple 88 key controller like the M-Audio Hammer 88 could fit the bill, but that is even longer than my MP11SE. Casio CDP-S100 or PX-S1000 then and use it as a controller. Could work.
The Korg D1, that should be perfect, it has a superb action that I've played and love, so I guess that would be perfect.
Only, it has no USB MIDI. Apparently, connecting it with a Roland UMK-One MK2 works perfectly.
Anyone tried using the D1 as a controller ?
The Korg D1 is not that much different in dimensions than your Kawai.
Talking of Korg, going back to a Kross 2 88 would give you the connectivity plus onboard Fun in its workstation capabilities.
A Roland A88 mk 2 has their PHA4 action with escapement.
A Studio logic SL Grand has graded wooden keys with ivory feel.
All these are imo superior to the D1
If space is a major factor then seek out a controller with less keys, heck you can do a lot worst than a Yamaha P121 as you controller.
Talking of Korg, going back to a Kross 2 88 would give you the connectivity plus onboard Fun in its workstation capabilities.
A Roland A88 mk 2 has their PHA4 action with escapement.
A Studio logic SL Grand has graded wooden keys with ivory feel.
All these are imo superior to the D1
If space is a major factor then seek out a controller with less keys, heck you can do a lot worst than a Yamaha P121 as you controller.
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I know you’re not fond of the Korg D1, nor of Korg’s RH3 action. I love it, by the way.
The D1 is a lot more compact than the MP11SE, Kross2 88 is too long for my setup. Plus, to be honest, I'd prefer doing sequencing and all the rest on a big screen iMac (or even Macbook) rather than on a tiny built-in display...
It’s just a lot more practical with something like a D1.
The other ones you mention are not as compact, 73 or 76 keys won’t do for me...
D1 has the best action possible action in that small a form factor.
MP11SE : 1380 mm long x 452 mm deep
D1 : 1327.mm long x 263 mm deep
I know 6 cm is not a lot but it’s the difference between fitting and not quite fitting... not to mention the depth.
PX-S1000 is an option but action not as good...
The D1 is a lot more compact than the MP11SE, Kross2 88 is too long for my setup. Plus, to be honest, I'd prefer doing sequencing and all the rest on a big screen iMac (or even Macbook) rather than on a tiny built-in display...
It’s just a lot more practical with something like a D1.
The other ones you mention are not as compact, 73 or 76 keys won’t do for me...
D1 has the best action possible action in that small a form factor.
MP11SE : 1380 mm long x 452 mm deep
D1 : 1327.mm long x 263 mm deep
I know 6 cm is not a lot but it’s the difference between fitting and not quite fitting... not to mention the depth.
PX-S1000 is an option but action not as good...
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Time to dust off the Credit Card
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Hardly, if I buy the Novation or the Arturia, the D1 and some more accessories, I'll have money to spare when I sell the MP11SE...
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Think I've decided...
First of all, I've let go of the idea of the Novation SL MK3 and Ableton. It's true that the integration is second to none, but on the other hand, I'm a novice and I don't even understand half of what the controls do and Ableton, after having played with the trial for some time, still feels a bit alien to me.
I've dabbled with Garageband so I'm going to stick to that, and most likely upgrade to Logic Pro X a bit later on.
As for MIDI controllers, I've been comparing Arturia and Native Instruments. The Keylab MK2 is a nice piece of kit, and the included software is certainly an incentive to buy a Keylab.
Both Arturia and NI have pretty compelling software but for the moment, I have a small preference for Native Instrumets offerings.
So I'll probably go for NI.
However, like I said about the Novation, I don't need too much 'whizz bang' and so I think the A-series will suffice for me. The S-series have those lovely displays and a better keybed (although because it is Fatar, I've heard comments of it being a bit noisy, something all Fatar keybeds suffer from, apparently, but that's not why I won't get the S-series. The displays, the light guide, all very nice, but that's to increase workflow basically, and ultimately, I don't care about workflow and one big computer screen will do just nicely, everything's there. Also, the A-series are said to have a very good semi-weighted keybed for the price range they're in, and certainly a whole lot better than Arturia's Essential range. Let's be honest, it's not for playing Chopin, but to mess around with. I'm also going to add a Maschine Mikro MK3, gives me something else to play with and the pads will come in handy for the stuff i want to do. All in all, a nice package, and very affordable.
However, there's still a very small chance I might get the Keylab MK2 instead, but it's more a case of comparing their software offerings some more.
As for the 88 key board, I was thinking Korg D1. Love the RH3. But then I started looking at some of the competition, like digital pianos which I can also use as a controller. Casio PX-S1000, looks nice, but ultimately, not the best option. Yamaha P125, an extremely popular model, seemed like a good option as well. The GHS is not the best action, but come to think of it, I don't really need an ultra realistic action just to have some fun with. So the action of the P125 would do nicely. More importantly, same length as the D1 so it will fit in my 'studio'.
Ultimately, though, that GHS action is also in the MX88, which was going to be my first choice for a 'fun' board. So I took another look, and didn't have to think long. The MX88 is highly likely. More iimportantly, though, also the same length as the D1, so it will fit in my 'studio', although it's a fair bit deeper, but it's the length that's more of a problem, rather than the depth.
That way, I can hook everything up to my Mac and my DAW, and still have a short fun jam with the MX and FM Essentials when I feel the need. Best of both worlds, or something like that.
And because I'll have the 88 keys of the MX to play with, I don't really need a 61 key controller so I'll be going for the KK A49, bit more free space on my desk, too...
I've got someone coming for the MP11SE next Wednesday so I assume I'll be ordering the new kit around the end of next week. Exciting times
First of all, I've let go of the idea of the Novation SL MK3 and Ableton. It's true that the integration is second to none, but on the other hand, I'm a novice and I don't even understand half of what the controls do and Ableton, after having played with the trial for some time, still feels a bit alien to me.
I've dabbled with Garageband so I'm going to stick to that, and most likely upgrade to Logic Pro X a bit later on.
As for MIDI controllers, I've been comparing Arturia and Native Instruments. The Keylab MK2 is a nice piece of kit, and the included software is certainly an incentive to buy a Keylab.
Both Arturia and NI have pretty compelling software but for the moment, I have a small preference for Native Instrumets offerings.
So I'll probably go for NI.
However, like I said about the Novation, I don't need too much 'whizz bang' and so I think the A-series will suffice for me. The S-series have those lovely displays and a better keybed (although because it is Fatar, I've heard comments of it being a bit noisy, something all Fatar keybeds suffer from, apparently, but that's not why I won't get the S-series. The displays, the light guide, all very nice, but that's to increase workflow basically, and ultimately, I don't care about workflow and one big computer screen will do just nicely, everything's there. Also, the A-series are said to have a very good semi-weighted keybed for the price range they're in, and certainly a whole lot better than Arturia's Essential range. Let's be honest, it's not for playing Chopin, but to mess around with. I'm also going to add a Maschine Mikro MK3, gives me something else to play with and the pads will come in handy for the stuff i want to do. All in all, a nice package, and very affordable.
However, there's still a very small chance I might get the Keylab MK2 instead, but it's more a case of comparing their software offerings some more.
As for the 88 key board, I was thinking Korg D1. Love the RH3. But then I started looking at some of the competition, like digital pianos which I can also use as a controller. Casio PX-S1000, looks nice, but ultimately, not the best option. Yamaha P125, an extremely popular model, seemed like a good option as well. The GHS is not the best action, but come to think of it, I don't really need an ultra realistic action just to have some fun with. So the action of the P125 would do nicely. More importantly, same length as the D1 so it will fit in my 'studio'.
Ultimately, though, that GHS action is also in the MX88, which was going to be my first choice for a 'fun' board. So I took another look, and didn't have to think long. The MX88 is highly likely. More iimportantly, though, also the same length as the D1, so it will fit in my 'studio', although it's a fair bit deeper, but it's the length that's more of a problem, rather than the depth.
That way, I can hook everything up to my Mac and my DAW, and still have a short fun jam with the MX and FM Essentials when I feel the need. Best of both worlds, or something like that.
And because I'll have the 88 keys of the MX to play with, I don't really need a 61 key controller so I'll be going for the KK A49, bit more free space on my desk, too...
I've got someone coming for the MP11SE next Wednesday so I assume I'll be ordering the new kit around the end of next week. Exciting times
Its a long time between now and next week
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Well, MP11SE left the building today...
Ultimately decided to go for the Novation Launchkey MK3 instead of the Native Instruments combo.
Sure enough, the MX88 seems to be out of stock everywhere.
Can't wait (although I might have to wait longer than I care to...).
Ultimately decided to go for the Novation Launchkey MK3 instead of the Native Instruments combo.
Sure enough, the MX88 seems to be out of stock everywhere.
Can't wait (although I might have to wait longer than I care to...).
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Sounds like maybe it's stuck on the wrong side of the Suez canal.
The MX88 is showing as in stock just over the Channel from you in quite a few Music Stores.
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Enlighten me.
I’ve tried Thomann, Musik Produktiv, Gear4Music, Music Store Professional, Keymusic, Stars Music... all of them on order, some due to arrive in the next couple of days, the others mid-April (Thomann was listed as in stock in the next 2 to 5, but that suddenly changed to 4 weeks)... Stars Music in France has one, but the site mentioned that it was the last piece and there was as possibility of it being a display model (not touching that)...
If you have links, I’d appreciate it...
Also, won’t be ordering from any stores that are UK based. Since Brexit, buying something in the UK from the mainland could get you a surprise tax afterwards...
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All showing in stock:-
Rimmers (15 minutes from my home)
www.rimmersmusic.co.uk
Anderton’s
Absolute
www.absolutemusic.co.uk
Gak
www.gak.co.uk
Wembley
www.wembleymusiccentre.com
Rimmers (15 minutes from my home)
Keyboards & Synths available at Rimmers Music.
Keyboards & Synths for sale at affordable prices. Free music lessons are available with every keyboard purchased from Rimmers Music.
Anderton’s
Yamaha MX88 88 Key Graded Hammer keyboard Digital Synthesizer - Andertons Music Co.
Get the Yamaha MX88 88 Key Graded Hammer keyboard Digital Synthesizer from Andertons Music Company today!
www.andertons.co.uk
Absolute
Yamaha MX88 88 Note Synthesizer
The Yamaha MX88 Music Synthesizer is the complete solution for the modern piano player aspiring music producer and live performer Piano Touch The MX88 features a Graded Hammer Standard GHS weighted action GHS weighted action has a heavier response in the
Gak
Yamaha MX88 | MX88 | Synthesizer | GAK
Buy the Yamaha MX88 Synthesizer. The complete solution for the modern piano player, aspiring music producer and live performer. Featuring GHS weighted keys.
Wembley
Synthesizers, Keyboards and Workstations - Wembley Music Centre
WMC offers a fantastic range of keyboards, Synthesizers and workstations from Roland, Yamaha, Korg and more! So what are you waiting for buy online or visit our store today.
BTW
Before I ordered my Compact 2X it was on the Thomann website at a very competitive price until I saw that it was without Tax, add Tax and Europe will not be getting any business from me again due to the Tax and levy they add.
UK to Eu will no doubt be prohibitive but whorth asking the question if you are keen
Before I ordered my Compact 2X it was on the Thomann website at a very competitive price until I saw that it was without Tax, add Tax and Europe will not be getting any business from me again due to the Tax and levy they add.
UK to Eu will no doubt be prohibitive but whorth asking the question if you are keen