[Help an absolute n00b!]

[igorpan]

I always prefer not to be "wired" to PC, i like more to play free, without having to use keyboard, mouse, workstation and 10000 more things at the same time....

 

[Skipp]

Polyphony is something that puzzles me. I originally had a used Roland RS50. It had 64 note polyphony--but no recorder. I don't think there was a way to play along with yourself at all. So what was the point of all that polyphony?

I sure wish I had that on my MM6, which has an 8 track sequencer--and 34 note polyphony.

Not that I even really need that, as long as I have Cubase.

This is the "thing"...

If you have an arranger it is good to have plenty of polyphony because
every style will take 8-16 notes (depends on how complex the styles are made) + you playing. If you're playing in layers of lets say 2 sounds in your right hand and 1 on your left that's 3 tones per key!

So if you're playing a chord in your right hand of 3 notes and the same chord in your left hand you have:

8-16 notes polyphony (style)
6 notes polyphony (right hand - 3tones x2 sounds, cause they're layered)
3 notes polyphony (left hand - 1 sound)

So that's 25 notes of polyphony by just pressing the keys. If you turn on
the sustain then the notes "stay" longer so when you play an arpeggio it can take even more polyphony...

Now... if we're talking about workstations, then the situation is even more complex... You can have 4-16 layered sounds (it depends on the model).

Now imagine the situation where you have lets say 10 layered sounds
(that means you "spend" 10 notes of polyphony with ONE press of the key)

If you play a spred chord of lets say 7 notes that means you just took
7x10 notes of polyphony... and we're up to 70 already!!

If you turn the sustain and play further... it's not a big problem to go over 100

Now, 10 layered sounds is A LOT and none of us will use that kind of thing...
I use 1-4 layered sounds but i use a lot of effects and sustain (pedal) so
i really need a lot of polyphony.

I hope everything is a bit clearer now

P.S. If you have a sustain pedal try this.

Press the pedal and play a BIG arpeggio starting from the bottom of your keyboard to the top, and back.

If you have 32 polyphony (MM6) you'll hear some notes "drop" or disappear. That's because the keyboard ran out of polyphony and the sound processor stopped reproducing the sound of that "previous" note so it can reproduce the sound of the new one you just pressed.

 

[Laura]

Actually sounds are made both by hardware and software...
Modern workstations have sound samples stored in ROM memory. .

So the sound samples on their own are made by pure software, but
you need the correct hardware to reproduce them

So if you opened up a keyboard you'd see something that looks like computer circuitry & a computer soundcard?

What does the hardware look like that reproduces sound? (I'm visualizing big metal reeds like harmonicas.)

If you have an arranger it is good to have plenty of polyphony because
every style will take 8-16 notes

If you turn the sustain and play further... it's not a big problem to go over 100

Sigh... I can only aspire to the day I'm advanced enough to need that kind of polyphony!!

Still, the RS50 wasn't an arranger, sequencer or workstation... all it had was the main track, so 64 notes was a bit more than it needed.

If you have 32 polyphony (MM6) you'll hear some notes "drop" or disappear. That's because the keyboard ran out of polyphony and the sound processor stopped reproducing the sound of that "previous" note so it can reproduce the sound of the new one you just pressed.

Yep, I've noticed that. Oh well I guess you can't have everything unless you spend $1000, I should only get good enough to outgrow the mm6 someday

 

[Skipp]

So if you opened up a keyboard you'd see something that looks like computer circuitry & a computer soundcard?

What does the hardware look like that reproduces sound? (I'm visualizing big metal reeds like harmonicas.)

Well, you're not far off . It looks a lot like when you open up your PC

This is just a part of some Korg keyboard

Sigh... I can only aspire to the day I'm advanced enough to need that kind of polyphony!!

Still, the RS50 wasn't an arranger, sequencer or workstation... all it had was the main track, so 64 notes was a bit more than it needed.

Don't worry... You'll get there some day. Playing the piano is not something
you learn over night. If you can carry a tune you are on a good way to
be a keyboard player . Learn some theory (how the chords and the notes
relate to each other, and practice, practice, practice...

Yep, I've noticed that. Oh well I guess you can't have everything unless you spend $1000, I should only get good enough to outgrow the mm6 someday

Believe me... it is not so hard to outhrow the mm6 .
My advice is NOT to try semi-pro and pro keyboards cause, once you get used to semi-weighted keys,
or full-weighted keys you'll ask yourself "How in the world could I play on that plasticky thingy"

Just keep up your work

 

[Laura]

If you can carry a tune you are on a good way to
be a keyboard player . Learn some theory (how the chords and the notes
relate to each other, and practice, practice, practice...

yeah, I just play chords, progressions & arpeggios a lot. The thing I want to learn most is 2-handed playing. Know of any good exercises? I've got that one 'minuet' someone posted here.

My advice is NOT to try semi-pro and pro keyboards cause, once you get used to semi-weighted keys,
or full-weighted keys you'll ask yourself "How in the world could I play on that plasticky thingy"

I have been doing some of my practice on our old clavinova which has hard action just like a real piano. I think it's a good idea to get my hands used to "the real thing". I think it would condition/strengthen my hands. It would be embarassing if I only learned on the 'plasticky thing' and then tried to play a piano someday and couldn't.

It is just like playing guitars/other stringed instruments. I play guitar, bass, etc. It is a good idea to have your hands in shape to play all of them.

I do notice that the clavinova keys actually feel bigger and it is more difficult to play octaves (I have small hands). On the other "hand", my fingers don't slip off the black keys so much.

 

[Skipp]

that's right... Weighted keys are a bit bigger.

But i've noticed that i make less mistakes on semi-weighted and
fully-weighted keys than on those plastic keys.

Like you said... fingers don't just flip or slide over them, AND you
have a much better feeling for the sound on weighted keys...

You can press them real slow and soft so you get that natural nice and worm
piano sound

 

[Laura]

You can press them real slow and soft so you get that natural nice and worm
piano sound

So for someone who isn't starting out as a piano player, which is better? Which is better for prog and ambient?

 

[Skipp]

So for someone who isn't starting out as a piano player, which is better? Which is better for prog and ambient?

Semi-weighted, and weighted keys are made for you to have a better feeling on the piano sound, so if you intend to play hammonds, lead sounds and such it is not a good idea to have full weighted keys because it's easier to play on non-weighted keys... It's all in the technique

 

[keyplayer]

The "sounds" your trying to emulate is a big thing to look for......i have some sounds that trigger on the down stroke of a key and then trigger again on the up stroke....weighted keys are not good for that espacially if your wanting the sound to keep the "tempo" such as a horn hit. Also when using pitch bend, the timing involved when the bend should occur is best achieved with semi weighted or an "organ like keybed"

But, its hard to emmulate a piano strike without weighted keys..expression of the song your playing and key velocity go hand in hand.....weighted keys are much better if playing a piano sound and the song your playing is slow or classical like

just my 2 cents

keyplayer

 

[alijeh370]

Please help I don't want to waste 1k

Hey watz up I'm new to this, well me and my dad... So I was just wondering what is the difference between a yamaha YPG 625,525, and a DGX 520. Also I wanted to know if the Alesis Fusion 8HD is better than yamaha. And what is the difference between 8HD and 6HD.

 

[Laura]

The "sounds" your trying to emulate is a big thing to look for......i have some sounds that trigger on the down stroke of a key and then trigger again on the up stroke....weighted keys are not good for that espacially if your wanting the sound to keep the "tempo" such as a horn hit. Also when using pitch bend, the timing involved when the bend should occur is best achieved with semi weighted or an "organ like keybed"

But, its hard to emmulate a piano strike without weighted keys..expression of the song your playing and key velocity go hand in hand.....weighted keys are much better if playing a piano sound and the song your playing is slow or classical like

So maybe that's why musicians sometimes have TWO keyboards on stage?

 

[igorpan]

I saw people play with 4 keyboards !!

 

[letsel]

My keyboard is weighted, and I quite like the feel of it and I chose that specifically because there are alot of piano pieces that I want to play on real pianos someday.

The problem is, the keyboard that they had where I took lessons wasn't weighted(think it was a Roland Juno-D), so everytime I wen't for lessons and my teacher asked me to play what I practiced I stumbled around on the keys for about a 5 minutes until I got used to the action. Even then, it didn't feel right.

Just something to keep in mind. Maybe this is something that can be practiced to get use to the different styles of playing faster.

I know if I ever get a bunch of midi-controllers like I plan to then I'll probably have to get use to it, and like the others say, it depends on what you want to play.

 

[igorpan]

I had the same problem in my music school. I practiced on a home piano, and than when I go to concert i cant get used to that big piano, not because of sound, but because of the keys....

 

[keyplayer]

So maybe that's why musicians sometimes have TWO keyboards on stage?

Yes Laura, you very well could be right.....as well as one of the keyboards could have had a specific sound that the other one didnt have that they needed to use on a paticular song...

 

[Skipp]

yup... if you want an ultimate combination you just buy yourself a motif and the M3... and you're settled for life