Help another newb find the right keyboard!

[Moe45673]

In my band, I play guitar and keys. Now, I am a guitarist first and foremost, nowhere near a keyboard virtuoso. I can, however, bang out the chords on a piano/organ/and similar, and play some simply melody lines. I am mainly using the keys as a way to add textures and sometimes to use a crazy synth pad for pedal tones or something. Also, it helps me and the other guitarist from stepping all over each other sometimes

. Despite my lack of technical proficiency, I am playing keys about 50% of the time.

I've been using a Roland Juno (not sure of the model number). It's a rental

Things I don't like about it......

Lots of sounds, way more than I need.

Can't find a piano sound I can really meld with. None of them sound "warm" or "organic" enough.... quite a bit sterile. Same issue with the strings.

I did learn my way around the Juno, but it's a pain to customize. Way too many menu settings. They don't overwhelm me, they're just tedious. For example, if I want to save about 12 patches, I have to save each one to the user slot in the correct category (piano/organ/strings/brass/etc) as user setting 1/2/3 and then rename them. So I just saved them all in the piano category, no matter what they are, and gave them names like "SongA1", "SongA2", "SongA3", "SongB", "SongC1", "SongC2", "SongD", etc. This allows me to quickly access the patches I want. However, it's tedious to setup and this is not the way the Juno is designed to be used.

Also, the effects have to be set and cannot be tweaked in a live setting. For example, delay can't be tapped in (even though the keyboard has a tap tempo button), but is whatever time you set it to

Not a bad keyboard by any means and it's more than useable. But I want something simpler yet better sounding. What I would like:

1) Piano/Organ/Strings sounds primarily, with a few wacky things thrown in for fun.

2) Effects are good, as thanks to various other forums and my guitarishness, I actually know how to use them. The ability to edit them in real time is appreciated (at least tap tempo!). Not a necessity, but if they're included, I want to be able to get the tremolo to sync with the song

3) good sound, primarily piano. I want something close to at least a regular standup piano.

4) Simple interface/Small amount of sounds. Not looking for the starship enterprise. I want quality, not quantity. This also helps when I have to call up a patch quickly.

Think "Boss ME50" (yay for manual knobs!)

vs "Boss GT-10" (boo for digital menus!)

5) 88 keys, though this isn't a must. At least 73 keys. Balance this with ease of transport/portability (I know there's a tradeoff!).

6) This will be a rental, so cost isn't a huge issue, but not looking to rent something that would cost 200 dollars for a weekend...... more like a monthly rental

The above criteria are what I think would give me the keyboard for my needs. If you think that something is wrong or is irrelevant or you have something to add, let me know

I am sort of hesitant to ask you keyboardists, as I know I don't need a 5 grand keyboard and I'm no stranger to gear. Unfortunately, other guitarists that know a thing or two about this are few. Hopefully I can

 

[kanthos]

Pretty big demands there, especially with the use of effects. Honestly, *every* keyboard out there is limited in terms of effects compared to good guitar units or making your own chain of pedals. The Korg M3 or M50 are about the best there is that way, but they're both pretty pricy (so rental price will be fairly high, I'd think; whenever I've had to rent, the prices have been based on the retail cost of the instrument), and they only do up to 8 effects at once, with some limitations on which effects can be combined. Plus, that's 8 *in total*; if you play 3 sounds at once, you don't get 8 effects for each sound. The Korg OASYS might be better in that regard, but renting a $7k synth is overkill.

It sounds though like the biggest problem is that you didn't quite get how to use the Juno playing live. Unless you're editing patches, you don't want to be making multiple copies of each patch for each song. Instead, go into program mode and make one (or more, if you change parts mid-song) programs for each song. Each program will have the one or more patches that you need. You can even get fancy and get a switch pedal to increment the program number so you can switch programs hands-free.

As for modifying effects live, I'm not sure how good the Juno is in that regard, but I *think* you can assign the knobs to control any parameter you like, such as effect levels and such. Of course, there aren't that many knobs, but short of chaining a bunch of effect pedals together, you won't get one knob per function anyway.

Soundwise, my suggestion is to check out Korg or Kurzweil. I'm not familiar with Yamaha, but out of the rest, Kurzweil has the best sounds (to me), although their keyboards tend to be more expensive. If you're not doing a ton, maybe the Kurzweil PC1SE might suit your needs. I'm sure someone else can chime in about Yamaha too.

Honestly though, other than sound, the Juno probably does a lot of what you want when it's used properly. Really, most keyboards around the $1k-$1.5k price range or higher will suit your needs, tap tempo being the one possible exception. Your best bet is to head to your local music store and try out a few, specifically for sounds, since your sound matters more than anything else; who cares if you can tap tempo and saving presets is easy if you hate the sound?

Good luck!

 

[Moe45673]

You're 100% correct, Kanthos. However, you're reading way too much into my posting about effects. That's just a preference, not a need. I'd be happy with a keyboard with no effects. Hell, I'd be fine with a decent wurlitzer..... one sound, but can be used to simulate pretty much any synthy sound aside from straight piano.

I also have no doubt I am not using the Juno correctly. I should add that I am not doubling any patches.... I was using a different sound for each one. I'm sure that for ease of access, I'd probably eventually start doubling patches.

What I really want are:

Simple interface/portability/good sounds/easy patch accessibility/at least 73 keys. Everything else can sway my opinion one way or the other

 

[kanthos]

If you're not looking for many/any synth sounds and your music store will rent it, try looking at the Nord Electro or Nord Stage. I've got the 73-key semi-weighted stage (there are 76 and 88-key weighted version); the electro is 61 or 73 keys semi-weighted. They're designed for organ and electric piano sounds, although the Stage has a limited synth. They don't do strings or have a lot of sound choices (other than being able to change drawbar positions on the organ module), but they might suit you.

If strings are more important to you, look at the Korg M50 or older Triton-derived models (TR76 probably), Yamaha M88, Juno Stage (you probably played the 61-key Juno-D or Juno-G; the Stage is 73-keys and has a much improved grand piano sound), or the Kurzweil PC1SE.

 

[Moe45673]

I actually was using the stage version, I believe, as it was 73 keys.

I'm not looking for something unrealistic, but for something as close to as I can get with all my preferences. Thanks for the suggestions, I am completely clueless where to start and your knowledge means a lot! I will check all those out.

 

[PianoMan]

You weren't using the Nord Stage... that keyboard is red and not at all a Juno. The keyboard is CALLED a Stage... Nord Stage http://www.nordkeyboards.com/main.asp?tm=Products.

I would also recommend a nord keyboard, from what I've read anyway. Or a motif rack... dunno how good the pianos are but the rhodes sound on it is sick. Doubt you'd be able to rent one though... maybe a yamaha s90?

There's a ton of keyboards with decent sounds, you'd just have to try them out I think.

For effects you might want to look at a Kaoss pad. From what I've read and from what my teacher has told me, is they're designed for live use and for easily changing/modifying effects.

 

[kanthos]

Think he meant the Juno-Stage, not the Nord Stage.

 

[satchmo]

I actually was using the stage version, I believe, as it was 73 keys.

I'm not looking for something unrealistic, but for something as close to as I can get with all my preferences. Thanks for the suggestions, I am completely clueless where to start and your knowledge means a lot! I will check all those out.

Nord Electro 2 is a good bet (the keyboard I use). It's very easy to get around, but it doesn't have any strings or pad sounds, just electro-mechanical keyboards (rhodes, wurly, clavinet, piano, hammond).

I think that your basic problem (not in an insulting way), is that you come from the guitar world (I do to), where everything is dumbed down, simplified and deals with a few knobs to tweak sounds. Keyboard sounds are much more complex because of the digital reproduction of each specific sound, and therefore adding effects or altering the sounds requires more than a simple twist of a knob to accomplish. The only thing that I can think of with guitar type user-friendliness is an old analog or digital synth, like a Moog Voyager, Prophet 5 or Sh101. The SH201 is actually a good synth too, but they will all be lacking piano sounds or realistic strings.

The Juno-Stage is a great board, but you will have to delve into the menus and save patches that you can use on stage. It's not unusual to spend hours tweakng your sounds at home and saving them to get ready for rehearsal (hopefully you only have to do this once or twice to get the sounds you want).

In other words, what I'm trying to say is that keyboards are always going to be more complex than their guitar counterparts, and you may be already using the board that is right for you, it just takes some time to get what you want out of it.