Help for Traveling Keyboardist

[Perry Capitani]

For local gigs, my main keyboard is a Korg Kronos that is excellent in providing me with basic sounds I use (piano, organ, synth, strings, horns). However, it is heavy and is difficult to travel with. Someone suggested I look into a midi setup that uses a software on a laptop connected to a midi controller that would give me access to various instrument sounds on the fly as required during a live performance. I guess another way of describing it is, I’m looking to a workstation brain on a laptop that I can access live using a Midi keyboard controller (just as I do on my Kronos. I'm new to Midi technology, so I find my head spinning trying to sift thru all the programs and device available. In most cases, the gear seems far more oriented to recording songs and their playback (live or otherwise) than what I'm looking for. I don't pre-record any sounds. Any advice anyone can offer would be very appreciated. I would need access to about 40 sounds/voices. Thanks again, Perry

 

[3dc]

Maybe you should look into Korg Software section. I think there is M1 and Triton Workstation you can combine with any DAW of your choice. Another solution would be to buy arranger workstation like Korg Pa1000 (11 Kg) or Korg PA-4X61 (14 kg) you can use to complement your Kronos. I am assuming you have 88 keys Kronos.

P.S. Personally I would not mix computers and workstations on stage. To many things can go wrong and when they do it takes time to fix them.

 

[Biggles]

Your Kronos has SST?

Is this an essential feature in your lighter more mobile setup.

If it is not then there is a very simple answer, a Korg Kross 2, the 61 key version is only 9 lbs in weight and has (if memory serves me correctly) 96 user defined quick access locations in 6 banks of the 16 available pads for Programs or Combi’s.

Quick and easy to set up and no faffing with computers or MIDI and best of all its pretty cheap to buy @ $800 US.

IF SST is important then you will struggle with the lower cost kit, a Roland Juno DS will nearly get there as will a Roland FA but these are with limitations.

 

[Perry Capitani]

3dc - Thanks for your quick reply. The Korg Gadget 2 seems to be what I may be looking for, since it works with Midi keyboard controllers and loads into laptops. I think I may also need an audio interface and other peripheral equipment. Can you suggest a dealer that can help me sort this through? Thanks

 

[Perry Capitani]

Your Kronos has SST?

Is this an essential feature in your lighter more mobile setup.

If it is not then there is a very simple answer, a Korg Kross 2, the 61 key version is only 9 lbs in weight and has (if memory serves me correctly) 96 user defined quick access locations in 6 banks of the 16 available pads for Programs or Combi’s.

Quick and easy to set up and no faffing with computers or MIDI and best of all its pretty cheap to buy @ $800 US.

IF SST is important then you will struggle with the lower cost kit, a Roland Juno DS will nearly get there as will a Roland FA but these are with limitations.

Hate to sound dumb, but I don't know what an SST is. The problem with the hardware is that I need to fly to certain gigs. So I'm concerned about taking anything that can't fit into a duffle bag for the flight. I was planning on renting a midi keyboard from a local music store for these gig dates.

 

[Biggles]

SST, seamless sound transition.

Press any key(s) and hold it/them down

The selected voice continues to play

Selected another voice whilst still holding down the same key(s)

The original voice is maintained until such a time as you release the key(s)

That is SST.

With a keyboard without SST as soon as you select another voice the voice sounding with the key(s) pressed will stop as you change the voice.

Generally only higher end workstations have this feature.

 

[Perry Capitani]

Thanks for explaining that. While my Kronos has that feature, its not something that's critical.

 

[b3maniac]

Welcome to the group Perry - I believe in your original post you are describing a set-up which consists of a midi keyboard connected to a Macbook laptop using " Logic" and " Mainstage" programs. These programs require the Mac computer to run them. "Logic" is a "DAW" (Digital Audio Workstation) and "Mainstage" is a companion program which manages software instruments for live performance.

On the other hand, Korg "Gadget" is a application ("app") which runs on Mac devices (ie, Ipad, Iphone). There is also another app , "Korg Module" which can do splits and layers. Ipad apps vary in fuctionalty but most are not extremely sophisticated to use.

At this point I have to tell you that setting up these devices and using them requires an understanding of computer/or Ipad, solid basic MIDI knowledge, and how to set-up and troubleshoot your gear. I have have a Win laptop, Macbook Pro, (2) Ipdad Air and have diddled with MIDI since the 80's and I love playing with it when I have time. I have used my Ipad Air 2 with a Casio keyboard to play piano and organ at open mike nights with friends, and it sounds good. If it crashes at open mike , no problem, but trying to trouble shoot glitches in a pro band setting isn't a good situation. I did run Ipad to change keyboard patches with no problems, but I do have a UPS in case of power loss on stage. My Macbook is a learning process for me because I have always been a Windows person. Using Mainstage in a band is not currently in my comfort zone (because of lack of Mac experience) but there are keyboardist's who do use Macbook.

Have you considered using a light weight keyboard and a midi module instead of computer gear?

 

[Perry Capitani]

b3manic - Thanks for your reply. You've captured what I'm trying to do correctly. Since I started on this quest, I received a few suggestions that I try either Ableton Live or Pro Logic. However, when I looked into them, most of the information available seems to focus on using these programs for either composing music, or prerecording songs and then playing them at live performances. I'm only interested in playing at live performance without relying on any prerecorded material. I only would like to have an inventory of sounds (piano, organ, trumpets, strings, etc. ) preloaded and available to me during my performances. The option to use a Macbook Pro with some type of software program seems to be best to connect to a midi controller. Have you any thoughts or suggestions on exactly what I would need? Thanks again......P

 

[anotherscott]

On a Mac, for what you want, you don't want Logic, you want Mainstage, which has the same sounds, but is designed for live performance rather than for recording/composition. I don't know much about Ableton Live, but from what I know, I don't think it's the right tool for you either. Alternatives to Mainstage for sound routing and patch management would be Gig Performer and Camelot Pro, which have their own nice features, but don't come with sounds, so you'd have to address that part of the equation separately.

 

[Perry Capitani]

Thanks. That's very helpful. I'm going to check out Mainstage. Let me know if you get any additional thoughts or suggestions.

 

[delaware dave]

61 key kronos workstation is 31 pounds. You should be able to travel with that. Nothing new to learn.

 

[anotherscott]

A 31 lb board is not going to fit in a duffel bag. And even if he chooses to travel with a keyboard rather than source one at the destination, a 31 lb board in a flight case can become a 50+ lb board.

 

[3dc]

Thanks. That's very helpful. I'm going to check out Mainstage. Let me know if you get any additional thoughts or suggestions.

I wonder what do you think about @Biggles suggestion for Korg Kross 2? Its a light workstation ( 3.8kg ) that could be used as MIDI controller. It comes with Kross 2 Editor you can use to make all sorts of arrangements in your DAW of choice. You can even use it with your Mac, iPad or iPhone.

 

[anotherscott]

I wonder what do you think about @Biggles suggestion for Korg Kross 2?

He did answer that in post #5... his concern is that it won't fit in a duffel bag for his fly-in gigs.

SST, seamless sound transition.
...
Generally only higher end workstations have this feature.

I don't think seamless sound switching (which goes by a variety of names, SST's is Korg's term) is as rare as you think it is. Though the implementations vary a lot. Sometimes you can hold a sustained sound through a single patch change, sometimes through multiple. Sometimes you can seamlessly switch among any of the single programs, but not between split/layered combinations of those programs. Sometimes the changes are totally seamless, sometimes the sound holds but you may hear a "glitch" due to changing of effects between the old and new patches. Sometimes you can switch from any sounds (or combination of sounds) to any other this way, other times you need to define sets of up to 16 sounds and then you can seamlessly switch only among the sets of 16 that you have defined. But I think most boards have some version of this. Kross is actually the only board that comes to mind that doesn't have any of the above.

 

[delaware dave]

when was a duffel bag ever mentioned by the poster on his opening post?

 

[Biggles]

He did answer that in post #5... his concern is that it won't fit in a duffel bag for his fly-in gigs.


I don't think seamless sound switching (which goes by a variety of names, SST's is Korg's term) is as rare as you think it is. Though the implementations vary a lot. Sometimes you can hold a sustained sound through a single patch change, sometimes through multiple. Sometimes you can seamlessly switch among any of the single programs, but not between split/layered combinations of those programs. Sometimes the changes are totally seamless, sometimes the sound holds but you may hear a "glitch" due to changing of effects between the old and new patches. Sometimes you can switch from any sounds (or combination of sounds) to any other this way, other times you need to define sets of up to 16 sounds and then you can seamlessly switch only among the sets of 16 that you have defined. But I think most boards have some version of this. Kross is actually the only board that comes to mind that doesn't have any of the above.

Roland FA, Juno DS MODX

Played them all and there is not a seamless transition close yes but not seamless.

I had my Kross 2 for two years and managed perfectly well without the seamless transition, it is all about timing.

The Korg Kross 2 with 61 keys, is imo the ideal workstation for ease of transportation, nothing comes close in terms of physical size and weight or rather in this case the lack of it..

I used to take mine to the Group jam sessions. Kross 2 in the bag with music stand and all leads, bag on shoulder, with amp and keyboard stand in each hand. One trip from car to the Hall we used to use in the pre Covid days and maximum all in weight for all the kit less than 40 lbs.

 

[anotherscott]

when was a duffel bag ever mentioned by the poster on his opening post?

It was in his followup post, #5.

 

[anotherscott]

Roland FA, Juno DS MODX

Played them all and there is not a seamless transition close yes but not seamless.

As I said, there are different implementations.

Kronos is fully seamless, as long as you only need to hold a sound through a single transition. (Before someone says that's all anyone needs, it can indeed be useful to keep a chord droning with one sound, while you change the different sounds you play above it, for example.)

MODX is as seamless as the Kronos, but only if your sounds consist of no more than four split/layered parts, as opposed to up to 16 parts on the Kronos. This is complicated slightly by the fact that sometimes a single Yamaha sound can take up more than one part, but that can also be easily avoided once you are aware of it. If you stick with combining individual sounds that are only one part each (which is the only kind of sound the Kronos has), then it will be as seamless as Kronos, albeit only for split/layered combinations of up to 4 sounds. (It's up to 8 sounds on the Montage.)

Juno DS is not fully seamless in that there will usually be a glitch in the held sound when you call up the new patch, but you can minimize the issue by managing the effects of the sounds you want to switch between. (Also, in single patch mode, switching from a polyphonic sound to a monophonic sound will cut off the poly sound, though that's not an issue in the multi-sound Performance mode.) OTOH, it will hold a sound through multiple sound transitions, which the Kronos and MODX can't do.

ETA: Juno DS also lets you use its pads to switch among the sounds WITHIN a 16-sound Performance entirely seamlessly.

I'm not as familiar with the Roland FA, but IIRC, switching between individual sounds ("tones") is seamless, except for the SuperNATURAL Organ sounds. But for switching among multiple sounds at once, you can only do that within 16-sound definable Studio Sets. But at least those switches are totally glitch free, and I think they hold through multiple transitions (maybe someone can confrim that?). As long as a given song doesn't require more than 16 sounds in various combinations, you can seamlessly switch well with this approach. The downside is that you do have to set up your 16-sound songs ahead of time. You can't arbitrarily switch seamlessly from any sound combination to any other sound combination on the fly... Kronos and MODX would be better for that, but then you trade off being able to hold a sound through multiple transitions. Nothing's perfect...

In current boards, almost everything has some implementation of seamless switching. The Korg SV2 added it (the SV1 did not have it), the Nord Electro 6 and Stage 3 added it (the Electro 5 and Stage 2/2EX did not have it). Though besides the Kross, I did remember that the Numa Compact 2X does not have it. (Well, it works in some cases, but pretty limited... the earlier Numa Compact 2 actually did a little better in that regard!) I'm not sure about the Krome? From what I know of its architecture, it would not have seamless switching for Combis, but might allow you to switch from one Program to another without cutting out...? Kurzweils and Casios have pretty much always been good about offering at least some amount of seamless sound switching.

 

[PianoVST]

I was planning on renting a midi keyboard from a local music store for these gig dates.

It is possible to sound completely the same even if you rent different keyboards for different gigs. Or if a keyboard is provided at your gig and want to quickly adjust it for your live performance.