Second keyboard...

[Kaneda]

I believe the answer is yes IF you are connecting everything together through your laptop, since the Numa can do audio over USB. Otherwise no, because the Numa has no line input, and the Korg and Numa cannot be directly connected to each other using USB (only regular MIDI, which does not do audio at all).

I guess that would be fine. I use my iMac at home for the Roland's, so I can easily take my Macbook to the appartment...

 

[Biggles]

I have to ask, why bother getting a second keyboard for the apartment at all?

Would it not be better to just have the one keyboard there with headphones &/or a set of powered speakers and then wait until you get in the apartment full time before you configure your keyboards and other equipment and then buy what you need for the mark 1 studio setup?

GAS is an illness we all suffer from but sometimes, less is more.

So I am suggesting you only buy what you absolutely need now and wait for the remainder.

You have enough on your plate getting up to your old speed and ability on your current keyboards as well as learning the systems and customising what you have, I have had my Kross 2 for about 18 months and am still learning my way around it and producing custom Combi’s and Program’s.

 

[Kaneda]

I have to ask, why bother getting a second keyboard for the apartment at all?

Would it not be better to just have the one keyboard there with headphones &/or a set of powered speakers and then wait until you get in the apartment full time before you configure your keyboards and other equipment and then buy what you need for the mark 1 studio setup?

GAS is an illness we all suffer from but sometimes, less is more.

So I am suggesting you only buy what you absolutely need now and wait for the remainder.

You have enough on your plate getting up to your old speed and ability on your current keyboards as well as learning the systems and customising what you have, I have had my Kross 2 for about 18 months and am still learning my way around it and producing custom Combi’s and Program’s.

Well, you know, I'm not sure yet about the Numa. I'll probably just wait a bit more. Guess I'm a bit overzealous at the moment, having been 'out of' music for a very long time and wanting to have it all straight away now.
I'm just looking at different options, nothing more. I have been thinking about using just the KROSS 2 at the appartment, with headphones. And I guess I could connect my girlfriend's JBL Bluetooth speaker to my laptop when I want to play without headphones.

And then there's all the new furniture to arrange... Like I said, overexcited

 

[Kaneda]

Now that I've had the chance of trying out my different keyboards, the Roland FA-08, VR-730 and the Korg Kross 2 88, I can without a doubt say that my absolute favourite is... the Kross 2 88 !

Seems a bit strange, as it's 'lower end' than the other two, but that's just the way I feel. The Korg is such a great board and it's just a joy to use and play. Korg definitely has a winner here !
Anyone else have the Kross 2 88 ?

 

[Kaneda]

On another note, I still would like a second keyboard for the apartment, to accompany the Kross 2 88. That’s just the way I like to play: piano style pieces on the 88 key, organ and synth on the second ‘non 88’ board.
Was thinking about the Compact 2x but I got thinking : since I like the Kross 2 so much, why not get a Kross 2 61 ? Same interface, same great board.
Only two questions : the keybed. I disliked the MX61, but perhaps the Kross 2 61 is better.
@Biggles What’s your feel on the Kross 2 61 ?

Secondly : can you connect a Kross 2 88 and a 61 to one DAW at the same time ? Both boards have the same internals, won’t that cause problems ?

 

[anotherscott]

the keybed. I disliked the MX61, but perhaps the Kross 2 61 is better.

There's always subjectivity to these things, but I'd say Kross 61 action is inferior to Yamaha MX action, just because it is so much stiffer toward the rear of the keys. Though it's not at all bad feeling other than that, so maybe it's a matter of picking your poison.

I still would like a second keyboard for the apartment, to accompany the Kross 2 88. That’s just the way I like to play: piano style pieces on the 88 key, organ and synth on the second ‘non 88’ board.

That's typical. I think few people who play piano and organ would ever choose to play a single board for both, if not for other constraints (i.e. space, budget, portability).

Was thinking about the Compact 2x but I got thinking : since I like the Kross 2 so much, why not get a Kross 2 61 ? Same interface, same great board.

You could do the same thing by plugging any MIDI keyboard (with standard DIN MIDI jacks) into the back of the Kross you have... i.e. you'd still be able to play the Kross sounds and use its interface while playing from non-hammer keys. Since the Kross 61 keys are a weak point, plus it would bring you no benefit you don't already have, I can't see doing that in most cases. Unless maybe you you're doing something like playing the two simultaneously and want easy complete independence of the sounds you're playing on each. Or you're gigging with them as a pair, and want the comfort of knowing that, if one goes down, your setup is identically backed up on the other. That kind of thing. But for your uses as you've described them, I don't see the point. For about the same money (a few bucks cheaper), the Numa Compact 2X, has better feeling keys (and more of them), has a bunch of nice sounds/capabilities of its own (scaled down version of the drawbar organ and VA synth functions of the VR730 you have at your other location, functions that the Kross doesn't have), it even has aftertouch which, when MIDI'd to the Kross, will give you a new, additional expressive way to play your Kross sounds.

 

[Kaneda]

There's always subjectivity to these things, but I'd say Kross 61 action is inferior to Yamaha MX action, just because it is so much stiffer toward the rear of the keys. Though it's not at all bad feeling other than that, so maybe it's a matter of picking your poison.

Well, I might like the Kross 2 61 keybed better than the MX61. I don't tend to agree with general consensus. For example, when reading reviews or watching them on youtube, the FA-08 is said to have a much better weighted keyboard than the Kross 2 88. Well, I have both, and I like both, but I still prefer the the Kross 2 88...

Unless maybe you you're doing something like playing the two simultaneously and want easy complete independence of the sounds you're playing on each.

Well, that's something that could appeal to me...

For about the same money (a few bucks cheaper), the Numa Compact 2X, has better feeling keys (and more of them), has a bunch of nice sounds/capabilities of its own (scaled down version of the drawbar organ and VA synth functions of the VR730 you have at your other location, functions that the Kross doesn't have), it even has aftertouch which, when MIDI'd to the Kross, will give you a new, additional expressive way to play your Kross sounds.

The Numa does look good, but I'm concerned about the keys. Logic dictates that I should like it better than the Kross 2 61 keys, since the Numa's are semi-weighted, but in quite a lot of youtube videos, the keys sound quite loud, they make a sort of 'clacking' noise that you can't ignore. The Nektar Impact LX midi controller has the same problem. The keys of the Numa are also shorter than standard keys. It's priced really agressively but 88 keys, semi-weighted AND aftertouch for a price as low as that ?
I can't help thinking : "Where's the catch?"
Or am I completely wrong ?
Does anyone here on the forum have the Compact 2X ?

 

[anotherscott]

The Numa does look good, but I'm concerned about the keys. Logic dictates that I should like it better than the Kross 2 61 keys, since the Numa's are semi-weighted

I'd suggest not getting too hung up on terms. You might prefer a really good unweighted to a really poor semi-weighted. ;-)

in quite a lot of youtube videos, the keys sound quite loud, they make a sort of 'clacking' noise that you can't ignore. The Nektar Impact LX midi controller has the same problem.

I've never found the Numa Compact series keys to be clacky (and I've played three of them). Some Casios and some cheap controllers, yeah, but not the Numa.

The keys of the Numa are also shorter than standard keys.

Same size as the Kross 61. Except less of the length on the Kross is usable before they start feeling a lot stiffer. (Numa has some of that, but not to the same extent.)

 

[Kaneda]

I've never found the Numa Compact series keys to be clacky (and I've played three of them). Some Casios and some cheap controllers, yeah, but not the Numa.

Have a listen...

Am I missing something ?

 

[Biggles]

Sounds clacky to me, in one part (9:10) it sounds so bad I would walk away and totally forget about buying the thing.

I suppose that you get what you pay for, it is a very budget board.

If I was after an organ based keyboard then a Vox Continental would be first choice

 

[Kaneda]

Sounds clacky to me, in one part (9:10) it sounds so bad I would walk away and totally forget about buying the thing.

I suppose that you get what you pay for, it is a very budget board.

If I was after an organ based keyboard then a Vox Continental would be first choice

You’ve got the Kross 2 61. How ‘s the keybed ?

 

[Biggles]

You’ve got the Kross 2 61. How ‘s the keybed ?

The Kross 2 keybad is very similar but has a slightly heavier action compared to the Korg PA that I also have hence I have go used to them.

Unlike Scott I dislike the MODX keybed, but worst is the Yamaha quality of materials which for keyboards under £1k is pretty poor imo.

If you have tried a Roland Juno DS 61 then the Kross 2 is similar.

I cannot remember trying either of the Roland keyboards that you have.

That said I am probably going into at least one of the many Music Stores near me on Monday and so I will have a look and play of whatever is there.

Meanwhile if you can list what keyboards you have tried and your thoughts on them it will give me something to compare to.

 

[anotherscott]

Have a listen...
...
Am I missing something ?

Based on the part of the video you linked to, he was demonstrating how you can dial in (or out) the amount of organ key click you want (a feature)... is that really what you're talking about? Then yes, you're missing something, i.e. that key click is generally desirable for organ (your VR730 has a control for it as well), and the sound is produced electronically, not mechanically, and has nothing to do with the construction of the action.

If you're talking about other actually physical noises, they can vary with things like how hard you hit the keys, or hitting the keys with your nails; and whatever mechanical sounds there were in that video could have been accentuated by the mic placement, and mix of mic sound to direct sound. The bottom line is that all keyboards make some mechanical noise. Numa Compact 2X is not unusually noisy/clacky. But why ask me? You said you tried one, and you liked the way it felt... so you heard it for yourself. Did it sound clacky to you? I've played some awfully clacky actions, this was not among them.

But if you don't like it for any reason, you could also take another look at the Juno DS61 or DS76 you considered earlier. It would be easy to use a DS to trigger your Kross sounds, but you'd also be adding a sound set that is different from your FA, VR, or Kross boards, as well as some different features. A couple of interesting things the DS lets you do that you can't do on any of your other boards would be switching Performances (or what your other boards call Studio Sets, Registrations, or Combis) without having any held/decaying notes cut off (though sometimes you may hear an effects glitch); and loading your own sampled sounds and having them automatically stretched and playable as instruments across the keyboard.

 

[Kaneda]

I did try the Numa at the store but with headphones. Liked the feel of the keybed but didn’t really pay attention to the noise of the keys (didn’t try without headphones, perhaps I should have).

 

[SeaGtGruff]

Secondly : can you connect a Kross 2 88 and a 61 to one DAW at the same time ? Both boards have the same internals, won’t that cause problems ?

That wouldn't be a problem at all. Even if both Kross 2 keyboards show up with the same MIDI device name, the computer should add a number after each one so you can tell them apart. For instance, my various PSR-E models all show up as "Digital Keyboard," but if I have more than one of them connected to my computer at the same time then they'll be identified as "Digital Keyboard-1," "Digital Keyboard-2," and so on. The MIDI Implementation Chart for the Korg Kross says "[SYNTHESIZER WORKSTATION]" in the top left corner, so I think (but am not certain) that that's how the Kross will be identified-- "Synthesizer Workstation-1," "Synthesizer Workstation-2," and so on. It will still be up to you to determine which one is which, either by playing on it and seeing which one registers the notes on the computer, or by sending MIDI to it and seeing which keyboard responds.

 

[anotherscott]

It's priced really agressively but 88 keys, semi-weighted AND aftertouch for a price as low as that ?
I can't help thinking : "Where's the catch?"

Their product are always good value. It helps that they are the same company as Fatar, who makes actions for so many other companies... which means they can sell that action for less than anyone else can. But there are areas where it lags the Kross and Juno DS, too. It can split/layer two of its sounds at a time, while Kross and Juno DS can split/layer 16 sounds. Kross and Juno DS have direct patch selection buttons for favorites, and they have trigger pads and vocal processors, and generally better effects capabilities, and what most probably feel are better pitch/mod mechanisms, and they have sequencers of one sort or another. They have more total sounds in them, and more user locations for your own sounds/combinations. DS doesn't cut held/decaying notes when you switch sounds. So maybe you'd consider lack of some of those features to be "catches." It's not a miracle keyboard. But it does have 88 better-than-average feeling keys with aftertouch, good MIDI capabilities, good real-time controls for organ and synth functions, and nice quality sounds. For piano, EP, and organ, personally, I prefer it to the DS or Kross.

Sounds clacky to me, in one part (9:10) it sounds so bad I would walk away and totally forget about buying the thing.

As I mentioned, I found it no noisier/clackier than your average board. Overall, I'd say it feels better than any of the budget un/semi-weighted actions from Yamaha, Korg, or Roland. I don't think you get an action as good as this from any other board with sound until you start looking at keyboards that are more than twice the price.

If I was after an organ based keyboard then a Vox Continental would be first choice

I haven't played that one yet, but there are lots of good organs one could consider that are better than what's in the Numa Compact 2X... Mojo61, Hammond XK1c/SK1, Nord Electro 6D, Viscount Legend Solo, Roland VR09/VR730, Numa Organ 2. I'd look for the Vox if I was particularly concerned with electric pianos, transistor organ sounds, or exceptionally light weight, which are areas where I believe it would excel. For Hammond organ sound, I think it probably lags the others... certainly in controls (percussion, etc.).

 

[Kaneda]

The Vox Continental isn't exactly in the same price range as the Kross 2 or the Juno DS. You're talking more Korg Krome EX territory here. Anyway, it's between the Numa 2x, Kross 2 61. Won't consider the Juno DS anymore, already have two Roland boards.
And you know, it's not just the sounds or the keybed or the technical side of a keyboard (although very important, of course). It's also about how the board appeals to you, how it 'talks to you'... Think I said this already.
I have that with the FA-08, and with the VR-730, but the Kross 2 88 trumps both of them on that level. Don't now what it is, but I find the Kross 2 a complete success. Haven't had it for a very long time, but so far, I can't fault it on any level. I even prefer the user interface to the one on the Rolands.
Maybe it's just me feeling this way, but don't you want a keyboard to 'talk to you' ?

 

[anotherscott]

Yes, I knew the Vox was not in the price range you're looking in, I was just picking up on a side-thought from Biggles.

I would question not considering the Juno DS merely on the basis that you "already have two Roland boards" -- you're considering another Kross and you already have a Kross! There's a whole lot more duplication between a Kross and Kross than there is between a Juno DS and the combination of an FA and a VR... DS actually has numerous sounds and capabilities that neither of your other Rolands have, while of course another Kross would not bring any new sounds or capabilities.

But yes, if the DS doesn't speak to you, it makes perfect sense to skip it on that basis. ;-) And same with the Numa Compact 2X, of course.

 

[Biggles]

Before you go out and order a Kross 2 61 try this on your 88.

Choose any Program or Combi.

Initiate the drum backing.

Play anything then whilst playing change the Program or Combi to another.

Do it again without the drum backing.

Results will be an abrupt change (as per Scott’s comments)

Now try something similar on your Roland's.

If you can live with this then fine, if not consider elsewhere.

It is not an issue with me as it is my Korg PA that has the backing the Kross adds extra sounds that the PA does not have via sts.

 

[Kaneda]

@anotherscott
Question : what are the speakers like on the Numa Compact 2x ? I know they're not at all for gigging, but are they good enough for home use ? And I'm not talking about the 'loudness'.
Do they sound clear enough when you're playing, good separation between bass and treble ?