Yamaha PSR E-353 Cannot Transfer Midi Files

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Hi All, I'm new to the Forum, thank you for having me. I am trying to save my user created songs on the PC and subsequently transfer song files between the PC and the keyboard. I have downloaded the Win 10 driver and on Musicsoft I see the back-up file but no flash files. I was expecting to see user songs and registers to save and re-use but don't. I would like to save on the PC songs I record on the keyboard, perhaps edit them and return them to the keyboard five at a time as needed but I cannot and have not found an answer online. Can anyone help please? Thank you
 

SeaGtGruff

I meant to play that note!
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I'd have to check the owner's manual to be sure, but I don't think the models in the 300 series can do that. In the 400 series, this is done by saving the desired user song to a standard MIDI file, or SMF, which is written to an attached USB thumb drive. As far as I know, none of the models in the 300 series has a USB port for that ("USB to device"); they only have a port for connecting to a computer ("USB to host").

That means there are only two options for saving your user songs to MIDI files on your computer: (1) You can play back the user song on the keyboard and capture the keyboard's MIDI output on your computer using a DAW or similar MIDI software; or (2) you can save a backup file to your computer and then try to extract the desired user song from the backup file using a hex editor, which requires detailed knowledge about how the backup file is organized and how the user songs are stored inside it.
 
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Thank you for your time and help. You are correct in thinking that there is no USB to device port but, according to the attached Yamaha 353 manual extract, I should be able to transfer MIDI files to and from the computer. However, I have not been able to as, when I run Musicsoft, I see only the .BUP file and not the .MIDs. I have downloaded to DAW but need to take music files back to the keyboard as there is storage for only 5 user songs and as it is I have to keep recording and overwriting which is not very efficient. I am a guitarist so the keyboard needs to play by itself some of the time.

Since you mentioned it, trying the hex editor would be good for my brain and I have seen your blog with clues as to how to find the headers but part of me thinks that Santa ought to bring me, belatedly, a nice 473 and solve all my problems for a while!

Thanks again.

Screenshot from 2023-01-18 13-43-55.png
 
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Yamaha and Computers

Yamaha and software

Yamaha and Manuals

None are really very user friendly.

Their manuals suck.

Time to flex the Credit Card on a new keyboard.

Forget the 473 which is hardly a significant upgrade and go right to one that will enhance your skills in an SX700.
 

SeaGtGruff

I meant to play that note!
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What the manual means is that you can transfer standard MIDI song files and Yamaha MIDI style files back and forth between a computer and the keyboard's internal storage memory.

However, when you record a user song the keyboard saves it in a sort of abbreviated MIDI format, presumably to help reduce the amount of overhead needed and thereby fit more data in the internal storage memory.

In particular, the header chunk that's at the beginning of every standard MIDI file is omitted, and the settings for the song are stored elsewhere as part of the keyboard's normal backup data.

If I remember correctly, the song tempo or MIDI clock rate is reduced by some factor, presumably so the delta times between the MIDI events can require fewer bytes, especially for any lengthy pauses between events.

And the MIDI track data is split into blocks of memory, the way computers typically divide storage memory into blocks of data, such that a given track might take up several blocks of memory, but each block of data is not necessarily contiguous to the other blocks and the blocks are not necessarily in sequential order.

On the models of the 400 series, the "Save SMF" function writes all of the song data to an actual standard MIDI file, converting the song settings into a header chunk and then creating the track chunk with the proper delta times for the specified tempo and with the data from each data block written out in proper sequential order.

Since the 300 series doesn't have that "Save SMF" function, the equivalent conversion process would need to be done manually by saving the backup memory to a computer and using a hex editor to extract the song data and assemble it in the proper format and order, including the creation of a header chunk, then saving the song data as a standard MIDI file.
 
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Hi and thank you both for your help and advice.

I get the gist Michael but not yet the detail but as the saying goes - the first hundred years are the hardest! I wish I had 10% of your knowledge but, since you have opened Pandora's box, I have to look into it some more although realistically I probably need to upgrade my keyboard.

I am with you Col about buying something future proof. With hindsight it would have been more cost effective to have bought a more sophisticated device than the 353 but that was then. However, I have used it for years and needing to upgrade because I have outgrown it is positive. In the interests of domestic harmony I have to watch how much I flex that card!
 
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Hints, attrition, strategically placed printouts, work your partner.

In the years since you bought the 353 (which must be quite a few as the 363 was out in 2016) hiw much has your partner spent on their activities.

You deserve a treat
 

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