Playing MIDI on PC with same quality as on keyboard.

[Nasedo]

I always like listen MIDI files / songs on my computer. I remember about 15 years ago or maybe even more, I had SB AWE 32 with 8MB of RAM and computer has been connected to HiFi equipment.
Recently, I don't have a good sound / music card, and believe I can find some player / software allows me to play MIDI files with the same quality as I can listen on my keyboard, I mean my other keyboard PSR E443.
Obviously, playing any MIDI files on my 443 is not a problem, as it's supporting USB stick connector, but as I mentioned in my another post - each of my keyboards is located in different house, many miles from each other.
I found some software, like SynthFont and MidiPlayer5 but... what is most interesting for me, despite the fact using different soundbanks, some of MIDI files have reasonably nice quality of song (not sound), but some of them... are terrible. I tested all of those music MIDI files on my 443 and all of them playing properly.
As a conclusion, my final question - is there any player + Yamaha soundbank allowing to play MIDI files with same or similar quality as keyboard?

 

[Biggles]

The answer is not only Yes, but it is possible to totally blow away the keyboard sound of any Arranger with inbuilt Amp and Speakers.

There is always a downside and it is the cost involved.

Most PC’s on sale in the last 15 years have had integrated soundcards, prior we, who build our own, used to select and install a separate soundcard which simply plugs into the Motherboard in much the same way as a Graphics Card does.

So that is way 1, buy and install a seperate soundcard.

Way 2, is to buy a USB plug in MIDI module which includes a soundcard and a Focusrite or Behringer spring to mind.

Then you need to have a pair of good quality powered speakers and you are good to go.

If you want the best if all worlds then include a Parametric Graphic Equaliser and Sub Woofer in the audio circuit.

Now a very quick search and I found this

Best Sound Cards For Music Production In 2024 - Technobezz

The world of music is unique and only those who have experienced different versions of it can understand its nuances. Some users are happy with a simple

www.technobezz.com

Do note I have not read the content but do know of the products since I use the Behringer 204 that is listed, what the link should show you is the options,

 

[Nasedo]

I really appreciate your answer and suggestion, however...
I'm looking for something cheap and most preferable free (as software) to play MIDI on my computer with reasonable quality.
I don't need it for work, just for my amusement.

Maybe my post wasn't clear enough, so I will try to write it down once more. As I got two different, separated keyboards E323 and E443 - the last one, working as "MIDI player" is completely satisfying. I had a hope, I can turn my E323 into MIDI player, but it's not as easy as I thought.
I'm not planning to buy any additional sound card, and I thought what I planned could be done is easy way.
What is more interesting - MidiPlayer5 - some of my MIDI files plays relatively good (comparing to E443) and some of them, played fine on E443 sounds terrible on MidiPlayer5 using the same computer, the same soundbank.

As I don't have much experience - I consider myself as an amateur, I asked for a help and advice, believing some of you may have similar needs like I do.

Thank you so much.

 

[Biggles]

Go to the BandLab website, register then download and install Cakewalk which is a DAW that will play your MIDI files.

Do remember this is an international forum with many members in USA, Canada and Australasia so replies can take a day.

You will need full two way MIDI compliance to have the system working satisfactory but my own knowledge of Yamaha keyboards is limited others hear know far more than I

 

[SeaGtGruff]

If you're just looking for a MIDI soft synth or soundfont that sounds better than the computer's built-in player, you might check out CoolSoft's VirtualMIDISynth (for the player) and Timbres of Heaven (for the soundfont):

VirtualMIDISynth | CoolSoft

coolsoft.altervista.org

Timbres Of Heaven, Don Allen's SoundFonts plus over 40,000 MIDI, KAR and BIAB files and 23 User Styles

Free MIDI SoundFont, Karaoke, Timbres Of Heaven SoundFont plus MIDI, KAR and BIAB files and User Styles

midkar.com

The advantage of using a DAW, or perhaps a MIDI editor/sequencer such as SynthFont (which I see you already know about), is that you can select a different soundfont, or virtual instrument plugin, or external keyboard voice (if you're outputting a MIDI track to an external keyboard), for each individual MIDI track, not to mention being able to apply different effects or equalization settings to each individual track, so you can end up with a result that will be vastly superior to using a simple MIDI player.

But the disadvantage of doing that is having to set up each MIDI track the way you want it, which takes time-- and you may just want to play back a MIDI file without having to go through any "muss and fuss." That would be where using a MIDI player such as CoolSoft VirtualMIDISynth and a soundfont such as Timbres of Heaven would be good.

 

[Nasedo]

@Biggles thanks for your answer. As you suggested, I downloaded and installed Cakewalk and had no chance for more thorough tests, however I played one of my MIDI files on default Cakewalk settings / soundfont and it sounds... so poor. As I mentioned, I had no chance to test more of this software, so this is not even close to my final conclusion and I will test it more and I will have more to say in the future.

@SeaGtGruff thank you for answering.
I had tested VirtualMIDISynth in my other home, but not clearly remember results. I must admit, I never heard about "Timbres of Heaven" but I tested several soundfonts, like: "Yamaha XG sound.sf2", "Roland Sound Canvas Bank.sf2", "OmegaGMGS2.sf2", "just t4.sf2", "CrisisGeneralMidi1.8.sf2", "[SoundFont] General Midi Super Bank.sf2", "(SOUNDFONTS GM-GS) Roland 55mb.sf2", "(SOUNDFONTS GM-GS) Fluid Release II Bank.sf2" and I never been satisfied with the results (using those fonts for playing MIDI).

Just tested "Timbres of Heaven" and I'm so positively surprised. It looks like the best soundfont I ever had. Thank you for recommendation.

To clarify more my needs, I have to tell, there are some separate ways I'm following:

1. Just playing MIDI files using keyboard or computer.
2. Creating something, storing, saving - using keyboard + computer. (hopefully nearest future)
3. Using DAW / MIDI editor or sequencer.

 

[SeaGtGruff]

Well, no soundfont is going to sound like your keyboards do unless they're made using the same sound samples as the voices in your keyboards-- and then there are the keyboards' onboard effects, which would also need to be duplicated by the MIDI player. That's why DAWs have virtual instrument plugins as well as audio effects plugins and even MIDI effects plugins.

 

[Nasedo]

It will be long way ahead of me, as I don't have experience with any DAW sofware. I udnerstand I will never be able to hear exactly the same, using software soundbanks comparing to real keyboard.

 

[SeaGtGruff]

DAWs can seem very complicated and confusing, even a bit scary for the faint-of-heart.

True story: The first "DAW" I ever used was SynthFont, which I later realized isn't a DAW at all, just a MIDI sequencer and sample player. (At the time, I was just learning about MIDI and had only just discovered "piano roll editors," so when I saw that SynthFont has a piano roll editor, I thought that meant it's a DAW!) I was completely mystified by things like "MIDI ports," which I knew could let me use more than 16 channels of MIDI, but I didn't have a clue what I needed to do so I could load a MIDI file into SynthFont and send some of the MIDI channels to my brand new Yamaha PSR-E433 as well as my Casio CTK-710. When I figured out how easy it was, I felt both incredibly embarrassed at how clueless I'd been, plus incredibly elated at the possibilities that now lay before me.

Anyway, after tinkering with SynthFont for a while, I decided to buy an M-Audio Axiom 61-II keyboard controller in addition to my old Casio CTK-710 and my new Yamaha PSR-E433, so I could use all the fancy controls on the Axiom to control the many settings on software synthesizers. I got a free license for Ableton Live Lite with the Axiom, and by that time I understood that SynthFont isn't a DAW, whereas Ableton Live definitely is a DAW. So after I installed Ableton Live, I started it up, took one look at the screen, freaked out, closed Live, and ran back to SynthFont. Every so often I'd start up Live again, thinking "I really ought to learn how to use this," but the display was bewildering and too much for my poor brain, so I kept running back to SynthFont.

I eventually took a free online course about how to use Ableton Live, and was embarrassed to discover just how easy it is to use! But by then I'd also bought Acoustica Mixcraft, and was very much happy with it.

 

[Nasedo]

Dear @SeaGtGruff I know it's not strictly related to the topic I started, but got to say, I finally have my new PSR-E423. As seller said, keyboard is in immaculate condition, perfectly working. I think it could be a little bit quiet than E443 but maybe it's just an impression, I'm not sure. Transferring MIDI is not a problem (finally!).

I have completely no experience with any DAW software. As suggested, yesterday I was downloaded and installed Cakewalk... and everything for me is just a magic. Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking about full tutorial but I have some questions, maybe some of them will be silly... so please, forgive my ignorance.

What I want to know? When I want just listen any MIDI file, just uploading into keyboard, and listening. Simple. No questions. But, I'm thinking... if it's possible... using Cakewalk or SynthFont it it possible to load MIDI file into software (on PC) and play it, but not using default output as Audio OUT, but on keyboard (without copying this song into keyboard memory). I'm not 100% if I was able to explain what I really want.
However, if you, or anyone reading this understood me, please help me understand. Maybe it's not possible or maybe requires advanced knowledge and it's not accessible for novice users.
Thank you in advance.

 

[SeaGtGruff]

I can't help much with Cakewalk, because I don't have it installed-- and even though it's free, I already have several other DAWs installed; and what with all the Elder Scrolls games and software synthesizers that I've got installed, there isn't much free space left on my hard drive anymore.

But later on I can definitely help you with SynthFont.

 

[Nasedo]

I can't help much with Cakewalk, because I don't have it installed-- and even though it's free, I already have several other DAWs installed; and what with all the Elder Scrolls games and software synthesizers that I've got installed, there isn't much free space left on my hard drive anymore.

But later on I can definitely help you with SynthFont.

I will be waiting then patiently. Thank you in advance.

Cakewalk is not only one possibility. I could consider any other option.

 

[khanhgomsu]

What I want to know? When I want just listen any MIDI file, just uploading into keyboard, and listening. Simple. No questions. But, I'm thinking... if it's possible... using Cakewalk or SynthFont it it possible to load MIDI file into software (on PC) and play it, but not using default output as Audio OUT, but on keyboard (without copying this song into keyboard memory). I'm not 100% if I was able to explain what I really want.

Hi. Yes, it's possible to play MIDI on computer and output to a midi keyboard, but it doesn't sound as good as directly played on keyboard. You can use software "Midieditor". I used to output via Midi port to my Tyros 5

 

[mris]

I always like listen MIDI files / songs on my computer. I remember about 15 years ago or maybe even more, I had SB AWE 32 with 8MB of RAM and computer has been connected to HiFi equipment.
Recently, I don't have a good sound / music card, and believe I can find some player / software allows me to play MIDI files with the same quality as I can listen on my keyboard, I mean my other keyboard PSR E443.
Obviously, playing any MIDI files on my 443 is not a problem, as it's supporting USB stick connector, but as I mentioned in my another post - each of my keyboards is located in different house, many miles from each other.
I found some software, like SynthFont and MidiPlayer5 but... what is most interesting for me, despite the fact using different soundbanks, some of MIDI files have reasonably nice quality of song (not sound), but some of them... are terrible. I tested all of those music MIDI files on my 443 and all of them playing properly.
As a conclusion, my final question - is there any player + Yamaha soundbank allowing to play MIDI files with same or similar quality as keyboard?

Midifiles sounding nice or terrible. Why ?
In order to find the reason why we must examine all the elements in the chain.
PC, Keyboard,DAW, midifiles
Knowing something about Midi,GM,GM2,GS,XG, NX
1) PC (quoting Biggles) the integrated soundcard in the PC
In most pc UP TO wIN xp they are based on Roland GM
External midi modules are based on one or more midi basess such as GS,GM,GM2,XG,NX....
and therefor different according to'the market name : example Yamaha uses XG,Technics NX, Roland GS.
Nevertheless all these modules can playthe GM midifiles.
So the midifile loaded into the pc will only sound like the midi integrated in the soundcard, mostly GM.
2) DAW : using a DAW has the ability to match the sounds to'the related soundcard.
Example : to find your soundcard or keyboard look in the instrument list of your DAW.
If your instrument like PSR443,E323,PSR433 IS NOT LISTED THEN you have to add the appropriate list.
Doing it this way your keyboard and daw will have the correct settings to communicate with each other.
3) Midifiles: every midifile hxas an internal code for the brandname and product type ( keyboard,piano,module)
known as sysex. This means that if a midifile is loaded into the daw will be restored to GM if the sysex info does ot exist
or xannot be read.
4)Midiplayer: I am not aware if midiplayers have multiple midisystems in the same program.
5) These are the results of my own experience with midi.
For those test I used as DAW Sonar,for GM the AC1200,for XG the yamaha MU90R,for GS en GM2 the Roland canvas SD50
for NX and GM2 the technics KN 6000.
quoting SeaGtGruff: No soundfont is going to sound like your keyboards unless they are made using the same soundsamples as the voices in your keyboard.
hope this will help a lot
mris

 

[mdc208]

Hi, hoping you can clear my mind as I'm having a heck of a lot of trouble putting all this information together in my head.

I have an old Roland SD-35 floppy disk hardware MIDI player that I still like to use for playing MIDI files I made years ago in The Jammer, and Band in a Box on the gig (guitarist). However, as the unit is getting old, as backup, I'd like to set up my laptop to be able to play those files. First I thought I was supposed to use soundfonts. I downloaded no less than 2 dozen soundfonts ranging in size from a few MB to over 1.5GB. When I choose the soundfont in VLC player, and play the MIDI file back, it sounds like absolute trash on all soundfonts, could I be doing something wrong?

Upon further searching, I came across a post on a forum where someone said:

"Soundfonts will never sound convincing with GM / GS / XG MIDI-files, because those files rely on MIDI Control Change Messages – Continuous Controllers e.g.:
71 = Filter Resonance
74 = Filter Cutoff Frequency
73 = Attack time
84 = Portamento amount
91 = Reverb send
93 = Chorus send
95 = Phaser send
... and the list goes on and on.

This is not possible to program into Soundfonts. You need a proper GM-Sound-Module from Yamaha or Roland or Korg with complete implementation of MIDI messages. (Hardware or now better software-pendants) Otherwise the files will never sound right, just ok if you are lucky and the file does not rely too much on controllers."

So I downloaded this 5mb Yamaha S-YXG50 Portable VSTi, along with the foobar2000 application, and played my midi file through it and it sounded better, not great, but better than any of the soundfonts I previously tried. Then I read somewhere that the same soundfont could sound different depending on what it's played through?!

I've seen that Roland makes a VST of their sound canvas (what the SD35 uses), however, it's part of their cloud subscription service. I'd prefer either a one time purchase VST, or even a free one if there are good free ones available.

For the playback, I have no interest in some complicated full blown DAW. As I mentioned, this will be for live performance so my needs are simple, play, stop, load another song, change tempo, change key.

Then I keep seeing sforzando mentioned. I still have no clue what that's used for, but I wrote them to ask if it works with general midi files and they replied and said "sforzando does not support General MIDI soundbanks. GM needs a whole lot of features to be implemented." I downloaded it, but it seems useless (to me anyways)

I just want to be able to play my MIDI file backing tracks and have them sound good. It seems crazy that in 2022, I can't achieve the sound via software that I was able to achieve with a simple floppy disk midi player 20+ years ago. Is MIDI dead these days? Should I just convert all the files to wav format?

Can you point me in the right direction? As you can tell from my post, I'm getting bits and pieces of data from everywhere, and I can't connect the dots or figure out what I need to do to achieve a goal, which is really frustrating!

 

[mris]

Hi
To obtain the same sounds via your laptop you need a midi player based on GM/GS
(What is the midi player in your laptop based on ? For microsoft is normal = GM
The SD35 is a midi sequencer with buildin soundmodule GM/GS compatible.
Your midi player (synth sound fonts) must receive the sysex (GM/GS/XG).
( The Falcosoft soundfont seems to do that.)
The Sforzando is a HiQ instrument used in Band in a box )
Good luck and stay safe
mris

 

[mdc208]

Hi
To obtain the same sounds via your laptop you need a midi player based on GM/GS
(What is the midi player in your laptop based on ? For microsoft is normal = GM
The SD35 is a midi sequencer with buildin soundmodule GM/GS compatible.
Your midi player (synth sound fonts) must receive the sysex (GM/GS/XG).
( The Falcosoft soundfont seems to do that.)
The Sforzando is a HiQ instrument used in Band in a box )
Good luck and stay safe
mris

I've downloaded the Falcosoft midi player. However, I don't understand sysex?
Out of the countless soundfonts I've tried, I found one, which I guess isn't even a soundfont, but a vst, called Yamaha S-YXG50 syxg50.dll When I load that one, the midi file doesn't sound too bad. Are there other files available to try like the Yamaha S-YXG50?

 

[mris]

Hi
Sysex : ( system exclusive)
Is the digital midi information that is stored during recording
( device type, brand, tempo,track, title,speed and much more.
On playback this info is used to configure the device with excatly the same settings.
TIP : if you connect your SD35 to your laptop via MIDI/USB converter and set the SD35 as a soundmachine
you can hear and play back the original sounds.
The problem in a nutshell
SD 35 = Roland GM/GS
S-YXG50 = Yamaha XG
VST : will never sound like midi (unless you can configure it in detail)
Alternative: maybe an older mediaplayer may do better IF it is accepted by Windows
(you can try : vanBasco.com)
goodluck
mris

 

[mdc208]

Thanks for that information! I looked at the vanbasco midi player, it doesn't look like it supports VST, perhaps just soundfont via a virtual midi port. I will experiment with it.

 

[mris]

Hi
VanBasco is a midiplayer and does not support VST.
You can use vanBasco as player and connect the sde5 as a soundmachine (USB/MIDI cable) and set the output tot GS.
Help to clear your mind
VST : Virtual studio technology
Technology that uses the MIDI language to produce new audio that mimics the sound of (real) instruments.
VST instrument: predefind instrument in a vst plugin or synt
VST generator : basic wave forms to make your own sounds
VST plugin : emulate real sounding instruments ( some have hundreds of them)
VST synth : software with all you need to make some noise (music) using the pc keyboard ( on screen) or extern keyboard .
You can compaire the syxg50 and vanbasco.
Up to you to make your choice.